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asvaberg   
31 minutes ago, Kezza said:

This is getting funny and ridiculous. The portraits of Moses, Drinkwater, Rahman and Musonda looks photoshopped. 😂😂😂 I can't imagine these players taking part in the same photoshoot session as the rest of the "real" first teamers. In order to not have any negativity around these players probably got arranged a private photoshoot at home or something. 😆😆😆

Maybe, but the photos are on the official CFC  page - I don't think any other than CFC employees have access to update the web-page, right?

Edited by asvaberg

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31 minutes ago, Kezza said:

This is getting funny and ridiculous. The portraits of Moses, Drinkwater, Rahman and Musonda looks photoshopped. 😂😂😂 I can't imagine these players taking part in the same photoshoot session as the rest of the "real" first teamers. In order to not have any negativity around these players probably got arranged a private photoshoot at home or something. 😆😆😆

I guess they are all done when available.  All the ladies, on loan and youth are wearing the "3" shirt, and I gather the youth & ladies are in a different part of Cobham with lesser security (hence the fuss about car parks).  
A few of the ladies seem to have faces photoshopped onto men's bodies (and so do a few of the youths) but perhaps that is being unfair.  But I guess no surprise if a loan player is photoshopped too.

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5 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

You are very aware of what goes on.  Do you have any evidence to suggest that loan fees amount to anything in real money? 
With Championship wages being around £10k (the top wage per club averages out at £23k and the odd PL contract means below £20k at most clubs so it is hard to see Championship or all but about 20 European clubs paying more than a total of 10k a week with no expectation of ownership.  Many of our better Academy prospects and I suspect all of the buy to loan players are getting £10k a week, sometimes multiples of that.

Great point about after-care.  We really do have a great record at this.
Thanks for list too.

Kenedy, Rahman, Zouma, Traore (all first team members in 15/16) I think they were meant as buy to loan but the first team was so ridiculously skinny that they just got grabbed by JM/Hiddink.
19 over 21 squad members including 3GKs and several crocked CFs in on loan.
The ultra slim squad approach then changed...

I don't have any inside sources but I believe we can just about cover our costs on the first-team rejects like Bakayoko and Moses, but for the academy players on loan in the football league I assume there is a significant Chelsea subsidy. Some clubs have to register the fees they pay, so some of what on Transfermarkt is official information, with the rest being estimates. Covering the costs means the loan army isn't really a business model, just the least bad option when you're stuck with so many players no one will pay for.

Kenedy came into a fairly large Chelsea squad by impressing Mourinho with his tackling back in pre-season, Rahman we signed because we needed back-up to Azpi at LB when we sold Filipe Luis. Zouma was like Sarr - I think he was always intended to come into the squad after his initial loan, but M. Traore was a long-term project that may have been implicated in the FIFA transfer ban case.

3 hours ago, asvaberg said:

Is Moses on loan? He is listed as CFC-team player here:

https://www.chelseafc.com/en/teams/first-team?pageTab=players

I included a few players that aren't yet on loan, but aren't involved with either the first-team or the development squad.

2 hours ago, Kezza said:

This is getting funny and ridiculous. The portraits of Moses, Drinkwater, Rahman and Musonda looks photoshopped. 😂😂😂 I can't imagine these players taking part in the same photoshoot session as the rest of the "real" first teamers. In order to not have any negativity around these players probably got arranged a private photoshoot at home or something. 😆😆😆

Some of them, particularly Rahman, seem to be wearing the cheaper version of the shirt - the "stadium" shirt instead of the "vapor" shirt. That must tell you something about their future prospects...

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4 minutes ago, chiswickblue said:

Kenedy came into a fairly large Chelsea squad by impressing Mourinho with his tackling back in pre-season, Rahman we signed because we needed back-up to Azpi at LB when we sold Filipe Luis. Zouma was like Sarr - I think he was always intended to come into the squad after his initial loan, but M. Traore was a long-term project that may have been implicated in the FIFA transfer ban case.

15/16 was a very small senior squad.  19 over 21s at the start and I think we added one loanee.  Whatever JM may have said in public, the squad was threadbare.  Even more so with Ramires largely injured.
That 19+1  included 3 GKs, Djilobodji and 3 crocked CFs (Pato, Remy and Falcao - 5 PL starts between them - Bertrand Traore aged 20, Kenedy aged 18 and RLC got 4 starts - each.)

It is true that 35 players either played or got on the bench.  That reflected just how short of starters we were (and I guess Hiddink rather than JM giving out end of season presents to youngsters)
Miazga (20) started 2 PL games after arriving in January.  Tomori, Tammy Abraham and Clarke-Salter got their debuts.  Colkett, Palmer, Blackman and Aina got on the bench.  Moses and Cuadrado were glimpsed briefly before going off on loan.

Zouma had played a bit after arriving the previous January and Rahman arrived off a good season in Germany.  So it can be argued that they were considered as part of the adult squad in September 2015, but I don't think any of the others were bought as squad members.

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paulw66   
On 12/10/2020 at 8:56 AM, Michael Tucker said:

Ok. We bring young guys through, and we also buy young guys we think have potential. Do we also buy young guys with the objective of selling them on and making a quid? Names like Miazga, Hector, Kalas, Baker, Van Ginkel, Brown, Kenedy, the McEachran brothers, Zappacosta, and Sarr. I'd suggest (without trawling through the list of names) that there are plenty of examples.My question tbh, was really, is this the way all 'academies' work? Or are we an exception, driven by Roman's money?

You've got your examples a bit messed up

The McEachren brothers and Baker were academy products from a young age. They were brought through the youth systemm, and then loaned out to aid their development, so that they either end up part of the first team, or they forge a career elsewhere (there have been a vast number of these in the last 10-15 years). This is nothing new, or different to what any club does. Go all the way back and Lampard and JT were loaned out, so was Beckham. 

Zappacosta and Van Ginkel are entirely different. They were brought in to be first team players, pure and simple, but for different reasons, didn't work out. MvG has just had a succession of bad injuries and has been loaned out to try and rebuild his career. Zappa just wasn't good enough, and because of his high wages, we can't find a buyer, just someone to loan and cover part of those wages. 

Then you have the final category, which Piazon was in, like Brown, Kalas, Kenedy, Miazga, all of whom were young players bought in for relatively small amounts (or in the case of Sarr, nothing) and then loaned out, with the hope that either they develop into first team players (long shot), or they do well enough to be sold on for a decent fee. 

Categories 1 and 2 happen everywhere. Category 3 is more of a Chelsea thing. 

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Sciatika   
On 12/10/2020 at 8:56 AM, Michael Tucker said:

Ok. We bring young guys through, and we also buy young guys we think have potential. Do we also buy young guys with the objective of selling them on and making a quid? Names like Miazga, Hector, Kalas, Baker, Van Ginkel, Brown, Kenedy, the McEachran brothers, Zappacosta, and Sarr. I'd suggest (without trawling through the list of names) that there are plenty of examples.My question tbh, was really, is this the way all 'academies' work? Or are we an exception, driven by Roman's money?

Not sure about the names you give. Baker joined when he was very young. However, I think it is now the norm for all of the bigger clubs these days.

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On 10/14/2020 at 9:05 PM, Sciatika said:

Not sure about the names you give. Baker joined when he was very young. However, I think it is now the norm for all of the bigger clubs these days.

Mate, as I said, I picked the names at random from the club list. The question was simply "Are we buying players with the objective of selling them on at a profit, or are we buying them with expectations that they'll end up in our first team squad?" - given where most of these young guys end up, you'd have to guess that it the former.

 

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paulw66   
3 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Mate, as I said, I picked the names at random from the club list. The question was simply "Are we buying players with the objective of selling them on at a profit, or are we buying them with expectations that they'll end up in our first team squad?" - given where most of these young guys end up, you'd have to guess that it the former.

 

It's clearly both.

 

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paulw66   
1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

Then it doesn't seem to be working 'clearly', does it? For the players I listed? 

I'll copy and paste my previous reply, which I don't know if you missed

The McEachren brothers and Baker were academy products from a young age. They were brought through the youth systemm, and then loaned out to aid their development, so that they either end up part of the first team, or they forge a career elsewhere (there have been a vast number of these in the last 10-15 years). This is nothing new, or different to what any club does. Go all the way back and Lampard and JT were loaned out, so was Beckham. 

Zappacosta and Van Ginkel are entirely different. They were brought in to be first team players, pure and simple, but for different reasons, didn't work out. MvG has just had a succession of bad injuries and has been loaned out to try and rebuild his career. Zappa just wasn't good enough, and because of his high wages, we can't find a buyer, just someone to loan and cover part of those wages. 

Then you have the final category, which Piazon was in, like Brown, Kalas, Kenedy, Miazga, all of whom were young players bought in for relatively small amounts (or in the case of Sarr, nothing) and then loaned out, with the hope that either they develop into first team players (long shot), or they do well enough to be sold on for a decent fee. 

Categories 1 and 2 happen everywhere. Category 3 is more of a Chelsea thing. 

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