• Current Donation Goals

Harvz

Transfer Talk Topic

Recommended Posts

paulw66   
35 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

Sensible logic - yes.  Mount James and Tammy played great in 18/19 and 19/20.  Rudiger Kante, kepa, Jorginho ( all already at peak ages) played great in their previous 3 years and suddenly poorly in 19/20.

Are you seriously arguing there is no logic there?

Jorginho didn't play poorly in 19/20 and Kante had multiple injuries. 

Only Kepa and Rudiger went backwards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

 Rudiger Kante, kepa, Jorginho ( all already at peak ages) played great in their previous 3 years and suddenly poorly in 19/20.

Maybe they missed Sarri

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

They put Christensen in with very similar circumstances.  4 or 5 managers have been trying and failing to find a place for RLC.  Ditto Sarri and CHO.  Precisely the opposite to your point, we have made too many concessions to the goal of embedding Academy players.  What was McEachran all about?   As Lampard did last season with Tomori. 

The 3 that are now first team regulars all got their chances because of their stellar performances in the Championship.  Any manager would have picked them.

There are memes generally started in the media and sometimes backed by the Chelsea Press department.  The idea that we treated our young players badly has been a long established meme that is completely bonkers (as more people than I have pointed out) but is very hard to talk people out of.  The Chelsea PR backed meme that Lampard is finally giving the youth their opportunity is equally bonkers.  
It is the reason why the world is so misunderstood by so many people.  People want to believe stuff and really don't care much if the believe follows through from available evidence.  See the Sarri bad, Lampard good meme.  See the covid conversation.  Or any of the banned political discussions we might have.

RLC doesn't currently have a place under Frank, although recovering from the very serious injury wouldn't have helped him, I don't really see what he has much to do with what I said about the players Frank has managed to integrate successfully into the first team?

Sarri did try an integrate CHO, absolutely, but not massively successfully, so I don't see what that's highlighting either?

In terms of Tomori, Frank clearly gave him the CB4 spot over keeping Luiz, but Tomori ended up with a lot more game time than expected or planned for due to so many injuries, he took his chance, but clearly Frank didn't feel and still feels he isn't ready. Sounds like good management to me.

As for Mount, Tammy and James, you're telling me if they weren't Chelsea players and were in fact owned by the clubs they were loaned too, they'd have been signed by another club in the top 4 last season? If you are, then I strongly disagree. Expectations for Chelsea last season were much lower than in any other recent season, based on the fact Hazard went and we had to supplement the squad with so many youngsters, nobody was expecting them to make the impact they did. If your plan is to ignore any development they make in their careers from the start of last season then that's up to you, but if you do acknowledge the development you must also acknowledge the fact that Lampard will be having some impact on that, surely? Also, if that is the case why didn't Sarri bring back Tammy in January of that season, rather than bring Higuain in? If it was so clear that any manager would have picked them, why didn't Sarri?

I've never said we treated our young players badly, not once have I ever said that I've simply said that Frank deserves credit for bringing these young players into our first team, showing them the faith and trust and helping them to grow and improve over the course of last season. I don't know why you're suggesting I'm basing my opinion on what the Chelsea PR department have or haven't done, I'm basing it on what I've watched with my own eyes and on decisions other managers have made around our squad.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

As for Mount, Tammy and James, you're telling me if they weren't Chelsea players and were in fact owned by the clubs they were loaned too, they'd have been signed by another club in the top 4 last season? If you are, then I strongly disagree.

We strongly disagree then on James.
Tammy and Mount would have been bought by a top 4 team (or similar European club) the season before.
Again it is curious that so few people recognise this.

There is a simple reason why SFL has managed to integrate 3 players so well, while CA failed with Josh, JM and Conte failed with RLC and Sarri with both RLC and but had partial success with CHO.  These 3 players are far better.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

We strongly disagree then on James.
Tammy and Mount would have been bought by a top 4 team (or similar European club) the season before.
Again it is curious that so few people recognise this.

There is a simple reason why SFL has managed to integrate 3 players so well, while CA failed with Josh, JM and Conte failed with RLC and Sarri with both RLC and but had partial success with CHO.  These 3 players are far better.

I don't disagree on the level of ability of the players you're talking about, my issue is with the fact you refuse to give any credit to Frank for bringing them into the team and trusting them and helping to improve over the season and learn this league and level of football. To dismiss it as 'any other manager would have done it' is just massively disrespectful for what he is doing in his job.

Why didn't Sarri bring Tammy back in his season and instead went and got Higuain on loan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paulw66   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

We strongly disagree then on James.
Tammy and Mount would have been bought by a top 4 team (or similar European club) the season before.
Again it is curious that so few people recognise this.

There is a simple reason why SFL has managed to integrate 3 players so well, while CA failed with Josh, JM and Conte failed with RLC and Sarri with both RLC and but had partial success with CHO.  These 3 players are far better.

I know you hate RLC, but Conte never tried, and Sarri succeeded in the last few months of the season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I don't disagree on the level of ability of the players you're talking about, my issue is with the fact you refuse to give any credit to Frank for bringing them into the team and trusting them and helping to improve over the season and learn this league and level of football. To dismiss it as 'any other manager would have done it' is just massively disrespectful for what he is doing in his job.

There wasn't a lot of trust going on last season by the manager.  The only ones that played regularly clearly deserved it.  Tomori wasn't trusted for long.  Kepa wasn't trusted.  Everyone was in and out.  If Mount and Tammy had long periods in that was because they deserved it.  But then Tammy got dumped late on.  

I'm not sure that a reputation for "trusting players" is necessary a positive thing.  But either way it is not something Frank has.  Not for old or young players.  Ask CHO.  
(yeah I know, the meme is out there, it just isn't backed by evidence).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paulw66   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

Tammy and Mount would have been bought by a top 4 team (or similar European club) the season before.
Again it is curious that so few people recognise this.

 

It is curious then that Abraham was loaned back to the championship. If he was good enough for a top 4 team (in the eyes of others) then there would have been about a dozen premier league clubs willing to loan him.

same goes for Mount really. 

Not saying they aren't special players, but I have doubts that a City, Liverpool, Spurs would have bought them 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, paulw66 said:

I know you hate RLC, but Conte never tried, and Sarri succeeded in the last few months of the season. 

My problem with RLC is simply that he has had an awful lot of chances without looking the part in a first team shirt.  
Conte picked him 11 times including 4 cup starts in the season we won the PL.  It was not as though he didn't have any chances to impress, he just did not impress.  Next season he belatedly went on loan.  RLC is one of these memes that people keep repeating only because they have been said so many times before.

Yes Sarri (or perhaps RLC)  succeeded in getting RLC to play reasonably well for some successive games in late 18/19.  But it wasn't brilliant play, he just filled the role at No 8 better than Kovacic (wrong position) or Barkley could.  

8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

It is curious then that Abraham was loaned back to the championship. If he was good enough for a top 4 team (in the eyes of others) then there would have been about a dozen premier league clubs willing to loan him.

same goes for Mount really. 

Not saying they aren't special players, but I have doubts that a City, Liverpool, Spurs would have bought them 

I'm not necessarily saying that Liverpool or Man U would have played them in 2018, just bought them from say Swansea or Vitesse and loaned them to a Championship or lower prem side.  Championship team if they cared for them as investments.  Perhaps one with a loved ex player in the management team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now