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34 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Don’t disagree with this - but we do lack goals from the midfield area generally.  So either we need more expansive wing backs (which would be my preference) either by signings or by playing the likes of CHO, Pulisic there for certain games,  or we need it from centre-midfield.

Yes we might sacrifice some of our solidarity and control of games, but that is no good if we draw 0-0 or lose 0-1 because we can’t break teams down. 

What we can’t have IMO, is 8 ‘defensive’ players on the pitch and simply leave it up to any 3 of Ziyech, Mount, Pulisic, Kai, Timo etc to produce some magic.  Far too easy for seasoned PL teams to defend against. 

This has been my biggest (only) criticism of Tuchel so far.  

I agree with this completely but, and I am not aiming this at you, personally I would see how things go, I hate to keep harping on about it but Tuchel took over a shambles and we did what we did.

If we continue to score so few goals, we will struggle and he will get sacked. I would imagine he is as aware as anyone where this teams deficiencies are and will be working on solving them.

I do not think the partnership of Kante and Jorginho will change though, they will continue to play the majority of games when fit and available. The goals will have to come from elsewhere. 

I also agree with everyone that says it is more the job of the wing back in this system to score and create than it is the two midfielders and rather than disrupting the best part of our team we could play Pulisic, CHO and possibly even Ziyech there against the lower teams.

 

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4 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

18 from defenders

It's actually 19, as Matic only got 1 that season, my mistake.

So we won the league with 7 goals from midfield that season, says it all really. 

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What a complete waste of a few pages of a thread, in the last 5 years we have won the Premier league, FA cup, Europa League and the Champions League with a bunch of midfielders that do not get double figures between them.

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So, everyone is expecting the WB's to score? Looks like people want Alonso first name on the team sheet then. 

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Rob B   
31 minutes ago, King Kante said:

So, everyone is expecting the WB's to score? Looks like people want Alonso first name on the team sheet then. 

Not necessarily score but it’s about being a goal threat.  My biggest bug-bear with Chilwell and Reece (and I’m a huge fan of both btw) is that rarely do either break the defensive line. 

They play almost all of their game in front of the opposition defence.  Compare this to the likes of Walker, Robertson, Rafinha, Tierney etc who try and get around or behind defences (not saying any of them are better players - far from it) and the difference it would make to our attack is massive.  

As DWMH and Martin have alluded to already, we have the quality of players maybe we just need TT to show them the runs and movements which will make us more threatening. 

edit - I’ve just that Andy Robertson has got 39 assists for Liverpool in 189 games!! Physically is he really that different to Chilwell?? Maybe very slightly quicker perhaps but not a lot in it….

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chelboy   

Exactly if you want wingbacks to score then Chilwell goes out the team and so does James/ Azpi. I don’t even think CHO or Pulisic will score much playing rwb tbh. You can leave the majority of the goals to the front 3 if you have a Hazard-Costa-Pedro combination. All 3 are capable of getting 15-20 G/A each in the league. Without those numbers from the front 3 you need goals from elsewhere. There are more goal scoring midfielders than there is wingbacks. It makes sense to have some goals from midfield with the current team that we have. 

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8 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Not necessarily score but it’s about being a goal threat.  My biggest bug-bear with Chilwell and Reece (and I’m a huge fan of both btw) is that rarely do either break the defensive line. 

They play almost all of their game in front of the opposition defence.  Compare this to the likes of Walker, Robertson, Rafinha, Tierney etc who try and get around or behind defences (not saying any of them are better players - far from it) and the difference it would make to our attack is massive.  

As DWMH and Martin have alluded to already, we have the quality of players maybe we just need TT to show them the runs and movements which will make us more threatening. 

edit - I’ve just that Andy Robertson has got 39 assists for Liverpool in 189 games!! Physically is he really that different to Chilwell?? Maybe very slightly quicker perhaps but not a lot in it….

Good example. Robinson is a WB whose principal job is to cross in and assist rather than be an additional goal threat. The goal threat should be coming from the AM's, CF and a runner from midfield. 

People really cannot have this both ways, they either need to show evidence of WB's who are goal threats that have better stats than Alonso (or Hakimi who is off the table) or they need to accept that their notions of WB's overlapping to provide goal threat as well as assiting from whipping balls in is a good theory that hasn't been proven outside of a computer game/their heads. 

As for Chilwell he has two problems to match Robinson. One is that his right foot is pretty much exclusively for standing on and second is that he doesn't attack the ball with his head as well. 

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Rob B   
5 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Good example. Robinson is a WB whose principal job is to cross in and assist rather than be an additional goal threat. The goal threat should be coming from the AM's, CF and a runner from midfield. 

People really cannot have this both ways, they either need to show evidence of WB's who are goal threats that have better stats than Alonso (or Hakimi who is off the table) or they need to accept that their notions of WB's overlapping to provide goal threat as well as assiting from whipping balls in is a good theory that hasn't been proven outside of a computer game/their heads. 

As for Chilwell he has two problems to match Robinson. One is that his right foot is pretty much exclusively for standing on and second is that he doesn't attack the ball with his head as well. 

Okay I think we’re getting carried away with semantics.  Rather than someone who specifically scores goals in the literal sense, I meant someone who can contribute to our attacking play and help create chances. 

My original point was about having 8 predominantly defensive players on the pitch too many times last season and then wondering why we don’t stream-roll teams like Man City did.  

The bottom line is our wing backs dont score or assist to the level required in that formation. 

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20 minutes ago, Rob B said:

Not necessarily score but it’s about being a goal threat.  My biggest bug-bear with Chilwell and Reece (and I’m a huge fan of both btw) is that rarely do either break the defensive line. 

At WB I have seen Azpi in a couple of games get into the box more often than Reece in almost 20.  Azpi remembers how Ivanovic did that as a FB, and how Alonso does it, but for some reason James and Chilwell aren't ready to do that yet.  Funny because the one thing that would allow me to take risks is knowing that Azpi was covering my back at RCB.   

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6 hours ago, King Kante said:

So, everyone is expecting the WB's to score? Looks like people want Alonso first name on the team sheet then. 

Better than having SMS in the team in place of Kante and conceding 2-3 each game while "trying" to score more than 1. Again, before you go about asking for evidence regarding the WBs. How many goals did we get from CMs under conte? Simple as that. 

Edited by didierforever

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