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7 hours ago, Wolfie Smith said:

“I guess Europe could be used an reason if there is a big delta between 1st and where Chelsea finish. 

Sounds reasonable, given that there are only 5 occasions in the last 35 years that an EPL team has been able to challenge seriously for both the CL and EPL.

And 2 of those 5 occasions were in the same year, but we wont talk about that!

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21 minutes ago, Wolfie Smith said:

Conte started with a back four which was unsuccessful "remember the arsenal game", he reverted back to what he knew and coached at Juve, and the National squad. No Europe meant Conte had 5 days a week to coach/drill the squad.

That is a first that Havetz and Mount are wingers???  "Do you mean DWMH player who is an outside right playing on the left with freedom to go left, right or center midfield and drifting into a DM role when the other team countering"

My bad: But 3 at the back suits us. It suits our CBs and most importantly suits our fwds in kai, mount who simply are NOT traditional wingers to be played out wide. 

Even though, I think the point should have been easy to understand since is supported the argument why we SHOULD be playing with a back 3. 

As for conte and no europe: Yes, it was literally the first time any top team was playing with a 3 atb. Is it the case now with us? Do we need to be drilled with the basics of that formations? I dont think so.

The formation should be based on the squad, which one can provide the best results given the players. The formation should not be based on "only 1 team has won the league playing a back3" (despite it being the first time ever), and hence should not be used. 

Also, can you tell me the perfect formation of a back 4 and where you would slot in Kai, Werner and Mount in it, supposing we do get 2 brilliant world class CBs for 100m each. I literally dont see a formation where either one of them does not have to play out wide, wasting their actual talents. Again, the should easily have been understandable depsite the "NOT" missing.

Edited by didierforever

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bert19   
3 hours ago, kratos said:

If TT can get a tune out him then why not?

I wouldn't mind the lad at Monaco though.

I reckon he might be a longer-term target.  Might be better for his development to have him sit where he is for the year and play every week rather than be 4th/5th choice here at his age. 

I think we're in for an interesting couple of years in terms of midfield planning though.  Kante and Jorgi are both 30 now, Kovacic is fine, but could be improved on, Mount can operate at CM, but seems more suited to a system with 3 in there or being deployed ahead of a sitting pair of DMs/CMs. 

Wouldn't be surprised if we start to see a refresh in the next year. Rice and the Monaco lad could be part of the plans for that (though I'm with Martin and can see Rice ending up as a centre-back too).

 

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1 hour ago, didierforever said:

Kova was bought in as a long term solution. 

Saul was given a long contract as he was one of the best mids in the world. So are you telling me that one of the best and most complete mids in the world for the last 5 years, is not worth a punt on loan because he had one average season? That too at an age of 26?!!.

I've already said it's an absolute no brainer if we can get him on loan.

Something has happened but none of us have any idea what it is, I'm sure the people that matter will be fully aware of what's gone wrong and why. I've not watched La Liga for a couple of years but when I did he was unquestionably one of the best midfielders there and arguably the best all round midfielder full stop.

Worst case scenario he becomes 4th choice, which we currently don't have,  best case we have one of the best midfielders in the world for a potential bargain.

I think I've made my opinion on Jorginho and Kante pretty clear over the years both individually and as a pair, I've gone as far as saying as a pair it is almost impossible to improve on, well the Saul I remember would arguably do that. He was that good.

 

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Bison   

Interesting. He doesn't seem to be even second choice in any position so he definitely should go play football somewhere.

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paulw66   
6 minutes ago, Bison said:

Interesting. He doesn't seem to be even second choice in any position so he definitely should go play football somewhere.

 He should have gone on loan 2 years ago, but it was all a bit political. Still hasn't delivered any sort of consistency to go with his undoubted talent. End product needs a lot of work. Not sure how that would leave us, attacking wise..... down to 6 players for 3 positions, but I guess if Saul comes in, then Mount wont be needed in CM at all.

Ziyech, Mount, Havertz, Werner, Lukaku, Pulisic........hope nobody gets injured for too long

Edited by paulw66

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Ham   
8 minutes ago, Bison said:

Interesting. He doesn't seem to be even second choice in any position so he definitely should go play football somewhere.

Getting a bit concerned, if true, about just how easily our English academy players are being discarded.

 

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15 minutes ago, Bison said:

Interesting. He doesn't seem to be even second choice in any position so he definitely should go play football somewhere.

CHO seems to have become a difficult puzzle to solve. I actually think he has looked pretty useful under Tuchel, he seems to have played quite well in the WB role, yet Tuchel does not seem keen to give him a run of games still.

We are almost on our third manager in a row now, that does not see enough from him to warrant regular starts. I was quite critical of Sarri as I think he underused CHO in his season with us, with hindsight maybe I was a little harsh on that criticism as two managers later and he has still not really established himself any further forward (albeit he had a bad injury in between)

I think we are at the point now where he needs a season away on loan and lets see how it works out for him. I'm not convinced abroad is quite right for him, he has so much talent that it makes you question if its how he applies himself as to why he has not progressed. Moving to Italy may prove to big a challenge.

If we could get him out on loan at Villa, Southampton , Leeds type club for the season. I think it will really help him and the club in deciding what the future holds. I do think the club are a little scared to lose him and it coming back to haunt us, I just feel they believe his potential is so high and untapped, it would cost a fortune to bring it back further down the line , should it ever materialise.

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paulw66   
15 minutes ago, Ham said:

Getting a bit concerned, if true, about just how easily our English academy players are being discarded.

 

The ones that are good enough now, play regularly. 

I haven't seen a single game from CHO where he has hit the levels of Mount or James. They were both able to have the benefit of a proper run of competitive games on loan first though.

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Bison   
13 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

 He should have gone on loan 2 years ago, but it was all a bit political. Still hasn't delivered any sort of consistency to go with his undoubted talent. End product needs a lot of work. Not sure how that would leave us, attacking wise..... down to 6 players for 3 positions, but I guess if Saul comes in, then Mount wont be needed in CM at all.

Ziyech, Mount, Havertz, Werner, Lukaku, Pulisic........hope nobody gets injured for too long

End product definitely does need work but having suffered an achilles injury and then limited game time he hasn't had many opportunities to develop. He needs 2 seasons of 40+ starts, that's never happening here. 

10 minutes ago, Ham said:

Getting a bit concerned, if true, about just how easily our English academy players are being discarded.

I know but we still have Chalobah, Mount and James. I still have hope Livramento will be back in the future. 

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