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Khobar's Legacy

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So in all this Heysel never did happen? some 4 years before this, the very same Liverpool fans didn't  cross the fence to attack Juve fans in the neutral area, "Tanked up Yobs" and weak small rodents who feel safer attacking in packs.  But wth all that didn't happen, neither did Istambul/ Bulgaria- Bulgaria or  Greece. Neither does it happen routinely every big  game ; that is all passion.

 

I takes a lot for me personally to agree with a Tory politician; but it seems Bernard Ingham may have done most of his drivel right this one time. 

 

Great insight DWMH, PNW, and others, thanks.

Edited by earthshine
why do you care?

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Sciatika   

Nobody thinks that the relatives of the victims are to blame. And probably not the victims either. They were probably the ones at the front who turned up in good time. I'd be pretty pissed off with the coverage in the days immediately after the event if it were my relatives that had died. And I would want the people responsible to be brought to book (because that's what helps make the loss meaningful), But, to my way of thinking, simply blaming the police, the Sun newspaper and conservative politicians is symptomatic of our society. By doing so,we allow others to absolve themselves of any responsibility including the FA, the stadium owner, the medical services and, to a degree, the fans.

On that day, a large number of people turned up too late to get through the gates because the gates were inadequate for the numbers in the time available.They formed a huge crowd of people trying to get in. They knew the game had started and were pushing to get in. The gate should never have been opened - they should have been made to wait and enter the stadium in an orderly manner. The police decided to open the gate to relieve the crush. I believe they were trying to avoid injury outside the ground. When the gate was opened, they rushed in and pushed their way onto the terraces behind the goal. Why did they believe they had a right to stand there when it must have been obvious it was too crowded? They must have known personally that they were creating a dangerous crush. Those that arrived late should have backed off and taken positions on the side. In short, they should have given a **** about the safety of their fellow fans. Apparently, they cared more about themselves than others. I am not saying they were solely responsible or even the most culpable, but to my way of thinking Liverpool club and fans should collectively accept that some of their number contributed to the situation and those that did should take some of the responsibility for it. But they don't - they never do. It's always somebody else's fault.

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1 hour ago, Sciatika said:

Nobody thinks that the relatives of the victims are to blame. And probably not the victims either. They were probably the ones at the front who turned up in good time. I'd be pretty pissed off with the coverage in the days immediately after the event if it were my relatives that had died. And I would want the people responsible to be brought to book (because that's what helps make the loss meaningful), But, to my way of thinking, simply blaming the police, the Sun newspaper and conservative politicians is symptomatic of our society. By doing so,we allow others to absolve themselves of any responsibility including the FA, the stadium owner, the medical services and, to a degree, the fans.

On that day, a large number of people turned up too late to get through the gates because the gates were inadequate for the numbers in the time available.They formed a huge crowd of people trying to get in. They knew the game had started and were pushing to get in. The gate should never have been opened - they should have been made to wait and enter the stadium in an orderly manner. The police decided to open the gate to relieve the crush. I believe they were trying to avoid injury outside the ground. When the gate was opened, they rushed in and pushed their way onto the terraces behind the goal. Why did they believe they had a right to stand there when it must have been obvious it was too crowded? They must have known personally that they were creating a dangerous crush. Those that arrived late should have backed off and taken positions on the side. In short, they should have given a **** about the safety of their fellow fans. Apparently, they cared more about themselves than others. I am not saying they were solely responsible or even the most culpable, but to my way of thinking Liverpool club and fans should collectively accept that some of their number contributed to the situation and those that did should take some of the responsibility for it. But they don't - they never do. It's always somebody else's fault.

Sums it up perfectly for me. It's become taboo to even insinuate that Liverpool fans should share even the smallest part of the blame for what happened.

If nothing else let's hope this ruling allows the horrible affair to be put to rest.

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paulw66   
1 hour ago, DaviesCFC said:

Sums it up perfectly for me. It's become taboo to even insinuate that Liverpool fans should share even the smallest part of the blame for what happened.

If nothing else let's hope this ruling allows the horrible affair to be put to rest.

Thank God for some sanity. The media circus has completely ignored the fact that there were too many people trying to get in to that particular stand. Nobody has intimated that the FA sold too many tickets for that end, so there must have been more fans than ticket holders. 

The police ballsed up by trying to cover up their mistakes, but that doesn't mean they were the only ones to blame. 

It's a bit like if I get pulled over for drink driving but the police make a mess up of the breathaliser reading and allow me to continue to drive, and I then run someone over, it doesn't make me innocent. 

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JaneB   
5 hours ago, Sciatika said:

Nobody thinks that the relatives of the victims are to blame. And probably not the victims either. They were probably the ones at the front who turned up in good time. I'd be pretty pissed off with the coverage in the days immediately after the event if it were my relatives that had died. And I would want the people responsible to be brought to book (because that's what helps make the loss meaningful), But, to my way of thinking, simply blaming the police, the Sun newspaper and conservative politicians is symptomatic of our society. By doing so,we allow others to absolve themselves of any responsibility including the FA, the stadium owner, the medical services and, to a degree, the fans.

On that day, a large number of people turned up too late to get through the gates because the gates were inadequate for the numbers in the time available.They formed a huge crowd of people trying to get in. They knew the game had started and were pushing to get in. The gate should never have been opened - they should have been made to wait and enter the stadium in an orderly manner. The police decided to open the gate to relieve the crush. I believe they were trying to avoid injury outside the ground. When the gate was opened, they rushed in and pushed their way onto the terraces behind the goal. Why did they believe they had a right to stand there when it must have been obvious it was too crowded? They must have known personally that they were creating a dangerous crush. Those that arrived late should have backed off and taken positions on the side. In short, they should have given a **** about the safety of their fellow fans. Apparently, they cared more about themselves than others. I am not saying they were solely responsible or even the most culpable, but to my way of thinking Liverpool club and fans should collectively accept that some of their number contributed to the situation and those that did should take some of the responsibility for it. But they don't - they never do. It's always somebody else's fault.

So well put.

And now to my horror the Premier League are apparently considering if 'Hillsborough tributes' will take place at matches this Bank Holiday weekend.  One suggestion is that You'll Never Walk Alone could be played and sung by supporters at every top flight stadium.  Yes I know!  Whose bright idea was that?  I would certainly keep my mouth firmly shut but I can imagine many fans of ours and other clubs wouldn't and all hell would break loose..........'Disgraceful behaviour from Chelsea supporters showing their disrespect to the 96 fans who died, Liverpool Football Club and their magnificent history and the entire population of Liverpool who have suffered so much over the years'.  

With the greatest of respect to the 96 and their families, who I genuinely feel for, this is now getting out of hand.  How many more 'tributes' do we need?  Sadly it's not going to bring any of the dead back and all this public grieving for people I never knew, and this isn't the only example, well it's something I have a real problem with.   

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Ruudboy   

Fully agree, JB: while I have the greatest sympathies for those who lost loved ones at Hillsborough (and Heysel, for that matter), this is getting far too mawkish for my pedestrian tastes, and an invitation to the more waggish members of our community to parody the anthem. God help us all.

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17 minutes ago, JaneB said:

And now to my horror the Premier League are apparently considering if 'Hillsborough tributes' will take place at matches this Bank Holiday weekend.  One suggestion is that You'll Never Walk Alone could be played and sung by supporters at every top flight stadium.  Yes I know!  Whose bright idea was that? 

This is the strange thing, isn't it.  The whole press is reporting as though everyone in England is behind the apologies.  They are not - they see it as a sham to shut up a pleading bunch of scouse whiners.  Lets all put the blame on those South Yorkshire Police and medics (ie the very ones that picked up the dead bodies) and pretend we are nobler people today.  Sanctimonious crap AND minority sanctimonious crap too.  No one really believes in the new story.

Indeed to his great credit, the Head of the South Yorkshire Police has refused to fall in with the crowd and taken suspension as a result.  

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If they have a "community" singing of YNWA across the land it will the greatest mis judgement in football history.

The idiots running the FA, Premier League and football related media in this country have shoved this rubbish down our throats for so long that they firmly believe that everyone supports Liverpool as a second side.

I am honestly glad that justice has been done and feel nothing but sympathy for those who's loved ones were taken away but it's getting horribly mawkish now , watching Dalgleish mangle his eulogy tonight was stomach churning.

It's done , let's turn it in now.

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