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Khobar's Legacy

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Sorry that anyone dies, least of all in a stadium but if people enter without a ticket what do they expect? 10 reasons defined and not one of them wearing red.......always the victims never the perpetrators 

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Ruudboy   

BBC Website: Five Hillsborough myths dispelled by inquests jury

"Myth: The fatal crush was caused by a "crazed surge" of Liverpool football hooligans, some newspapers reported.

What we know: Preventing and controlling crowd disorder had a "profound effect on football" in the 1970s and 1980s, Sir John Goldring, the coroner at the inquests stated. Four years before the disaster, a group of Liverpool fans were blamed for causing the Heysel disaster, in which 39 Juventus supporters died when a wall collapsed at the 1985 European Cup Final in Brussels. In his summing up, Sir John reminded the jury that the scourge, known as "the English disease", was a serious problem at the time. During the early 1970s, fighting between fans and pitch invasions made it necessary to prevent access to the playing area and the perimeter fences were erected at grounds like Hillsborough in 1977. However, he said that Liverpool supporters "did not have a reputation for violence" and told jurors "there is no suggestion that the Hillsborough disaster was caused by hooliganism"."

 

So now you know. Obviously the scaffolding poles they threw at a group of us unprovoked as we left Old Trafford after a Chelsea : Scousers cup match a few years ago were intended as a boisterous gift, while the threats I received on my way home by train from another match were meant as a bit of friendly banter.

Come on, Auntie, don't over-egg it: they're scallies, and they always have been.

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As the police said, and unusually I support the police here a bit. The poor hard done by scousers have had all the press time and what they have shouted is now seen to be true and anyone seen to question their facts is seen as some kind of cruel uncaring soul

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1 hour ago, blue moon said:

BBC Website: Five Hillsborough myths dispelled by inquests jury

 

"Myth: The fatal crush was caused by a "crazed surge" of Liverpool football hooligans, some newspapers reported.

 

What we know: Preventing and controlling crowd disorder had a "profound effect on football" in the 1970s and 1980s, Sir John Goldring, the coroner at the inquests stated. Four years before the disaster, a group of Liverpool fans were blamed for causing the Heysel disaster, in which 39 Juventus supporters died when a wall collapsed at the 1985 European Cup Final in Brussels. In his summing up, Sir John reminded the jury that the scourge, known as "the English disease", was a serious problem at the time. During the early 1970s, fighting between fans and pitch invasions made it necessary to prevent access to the playing area and the perimeter fences were erected at grounds like Hillsborough in 1977. However, he said that Liverpool supporters "did not have a reputation for violence" and told jurors "there is no suggestion that the Hillsborough disaster was caused by hooliganism"."

 

 

I wonder how many games Sir John was going to in the 1980s? Where did that advice come from? Pure conjecture.

http://www.lfchistory.net/Articles/Article/3228

Sir John should have read this. Our old friend Tony Evans from the Times. Please take the time to read it.

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Nice moment tonight in them losing, in the last minute too, such a shame - NOT

On the matter of shame, they've really shamed themselves today, with the ink barely dry on the court papers, the relatives of the dead and 'the survivors' have launched proceedings for compensation.

"Compo' for the 96" - doesn't quite have the same effect does it?

Edited by East Lower

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15 hours ago, paulw66 said:

And now the families are not only after "justice" they are after £19m

The real reasons are coming out pretty quickly. 

A lot of the recent posts here are fairly depressing for me, but this one especially.

There is absolutely no doubt that the authorities and press acted disgracefully in the immediate wake of Hillsborough and have continued to do so for decades after. None. Here we are talking about the families of people who were crushed to death, and for some reason beyond reckoning we are being critical of them suffering and demanding that there be some reparation for the irreparable damage that has caused them and the people they loved. We are questioning their motivation, and doing so with a sad lack of empathy.

I consider a lot of the Hillsborough legacy to be mawkish, and one of the reasons why is that I can't help but think I'd feel my pain and suffering was being appropriated had anything equivalent ever happened to me and mine, but we're no better when we other these families and lump them in as one big group rather than see them, and not the campaign and legacy around them, for what they are; grieving families. 

To suggest that the 'real reason' individual families have fought, desperately, tirelessly and with no doubt huge personal expense (financially and just in terms of self; what must life have been like day to day to feel you have to fight this battle for so long), is financial gain is, quite frankly, pathetic. Maybe even vile.

I don't like Liverpool Football Club, not one bit. I don't like the reverence for them. I find a lot of the Hillsborough justice campaign as it were to have been exploitative of individual's suffering. And the idea that their fans are in any way well behaved is laughable. But we are talking about people who died here. People who died watching football.

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1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

A lot of the recent posts here are fairly depressing for me, but this one especially.

There is absolutely no doubt that the authorities and press acted disgracefully in the immediate wake of Hillsborough and have continued to do so for decades after. None. Here we are talking about the families of people who were crushed to death, and for some reason beyond reckoning we are being critical of them suffering and demanding that there be some reparation for the irreparable damage that has caused them and the people they loved. We are questioning their motivation, and doing so with a sad lack of empathy.

I consider a lot of the Hillsborough legacy to be mawkish, and one of the reasons why is that I can't help but think I'd feel my pain and suffering was being appropriated had anything equivalent ever happened to me and mine, but we're no better when we other these families and lump them in as one big group rather than see them, and not the campaign and legacy around them, for what they are; grieving families. 

To suggest that the 'real reason' individual families have fought, desperately, tirelessly and with no doubt huge personal expense (financially and just in terms of self; what must life have been like day to day to feel you have to fight this battle for so long), is financial gain is, quite frankly, pathetic. Maybe even vile.

I don't like Liverpool Football Club, not one bit. I don't like the reverence for them. I find a lot of the Hillsborough justice campaign as it were to have been exploitative of individual's suffering. And the idea that their fans are in any way well behaved is laughable. But we are talking about people who died here. People who died watching football.

Well said. I hope that people here take the time to read your comments, and think  about their reactions.

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29 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Well said. I hope that people here take the time to read your comments, and think  about their reactions.

Let me clarify.

The 96 people who died were the completely innocent victims. The suffering there families have endured is a scandalous reflection on British justice. As a group they are entitled to whatever compensation wether financial or judicial that can be given. Neither of which will remotely go to easing there suffering.

What I have been trying to highlight is ( in my view) the murderous actions of those outside. They are the ones with blood on there hands. If anyone had to die that day it should have been them. The subsequent whitewash of all blame on this group is s further disgrace in this sorry tale.

 

 

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3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

A lot of the recent posts here are fairly depressing for me, but this one especially.

There is absolutely no doubt that the authorities and press acted disgracefully in the immediate wake of Hillsborough and have continued to do so for decades after. None. Here we are talking about the families of people who were crushed to death, and for some reason beyond reckoning we are being critical of them suffering and demanding that there be some reparation for the irreparable damage that has caused them and the people they loved. We are questioning their motivation, and doing so with a sad lack of empathy.

I consider a lot of the Hillsborough legacy to be mawkish, and one of the reasons why is that I can't help but think I'd feel my pain and suffering was being appropriated had anything equivalent ever happened to me and mine, but we're no better when we other these families and lump them in as one big group rather than see them, and not the campaign and legacy around them, for what they are; grieving families. 

To suggest that the 'real reason' individual families have fought, desperately, tirelessly and with no doubt huge personal expense (financially and just in terms of self; what must life have been like day to day to feel you have to fight this battle for so long), is financial gain is, quite frankly, pathetic. Maybe even vile.

I don't like Liverpool Football Club, not one bit. I don't like the reverence for them. I find a lot of the Hillsborough justice campaign as it were to have been exploitative of individual's suffering. And the idea that their fans are in any way well behaved is laughable. But we are talking about people who died here. People who died watching football.

Hear, hear!

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3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

There is absolutely no doubt that the authorities and press acted disgracefully in the immediate wake of Hillsborough and have continued to do so for decades after. None. Here we are talking about the families of people who were crushed to death, and for some reason beyond reckoning we are being critical of them suffering and demanding that there be some reparation for the irreparable damage that has caused them and the people they loved. We are questioning their motivation, and doing so with a sad lack of empathy.

 

The families have campaigned for Justice, as you state tirelessly, and with justification.

Their subsequent actions, immediately after - not after a considered period, but the day after the courts decision would at the very least, make people question motives.

For clarity, they have appointed a large London based law firm to act. That will be a pre-meditated and convoluted process, before any jury decision had been made.

Even the most hardened fan could not have feeling for the ordeal they and their loved ones were put through and the campaigning has got what they always wanted - they've been found to be completely blame free. The immediacy of the claims just doesn't sit well, for me.

There have been other stadium disasters resulting in multiple fatalities - Hampden Park, Bradford City - neither of which resulted in immediate claims for compensation. 

 

 

 

 

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