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chara   
16 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Does anyone feel the way I do? I just feel the heart has been ripped out of the club over the last few years. Managers aside, all the long term players we had previously taken for granted that gave the club its identity have moved on and there is no-one left who looks a "permanent fixture". Even the back room staff that gave a degree of continuity seem to be turning over. I suppose we were very lucky over the last 10 years or so but I am left with a feeling that the club has just become a brand with interchangeable parts rather than the "family" that I have supported over the last 50 years.

Yep..one of the things that I couldn't quite understand when I first came out here is the lack of long term "Club" loyal players in most sports..a few glaring examples to the contrary but few and far between. We tend to relate to players at any given time ..take any generation..whilst still being Chelsea. Many of the "older" and not quite so old posters can still look back at players we considered "our Chelsea"... Now?...hmmm....I know times change but not always for the good....pitches now look nothing like they did back in the day...strip of grass down the wings and a bare middle..good in fact excellent as football can be played at any time of the season!..the bad includes lack of club loyalty...wages may be insane but as opposed to the maximum wage structure?

 

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5 minutes ago, chara said:

Yep..one of the things that I couldn't quite understand when I first came out here is the lack of long term "Club" loyal players in most sports..

I think it was pretty good 2 years ago - Conte destroyed that in trying to get it all "his way".  In 6 months / 2 windows, Oscar, Mikel, Ivanovic, JT, Matic, Begovic, Chalobah and Ake went.  The old guard and the new guard together.

I think most top clubs have it better than we do now.  I don't think it is a real problem in football, or will be a Chelsea problem once the Conte effect has been smoothed over.

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chara   
10 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think it was pretty good 2 years ago - Conte destroyed that in trying to get it all "his way".  In 6 months / 2 windows, Oscar, Mikel, Ivanovic, JT, Matic, Begovic, Chalobah and Ake went.  The old guard and the new guard together.

I think most top clubs have it better than we do now.  I don't think it is a real problem in football, or will be a Chelsea problem once the Conte effect has been smoothed over.

Hey Droy..I'm in Colorado now!..USA!...meant USA not UK!!!..keep a grip!!!

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chara   
Just now, chara said:

Hey Droy..I'm in Colorado now!..USA!...meant USA not UK!!!..keep a grip!!!

Or were you just highlighting Chelsea? not my comments?

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12 minutes ago, chara said:

Or were you just highlighting Chelsea? not my comments?

Sorry - I didn't notice the context - so jumped to Chelsea having lost so much identity recently.  My error.  But I'm on a roll now, so I just carry on regardless...

We have gone from a team with heritage to a team which is largely a bunch of unsettled new guys.
Since Conte arrived Rudiger over 6 months established himself as a player I can really associate at Chelsea, Christensen (who was already ours) over 6 games, and Kante over about 30 mins.   I'd like to welcome Zappacosta to that list, but we never see him.  Then there is a long bunch of players who feel as much Chelsea as Pato or de  Lucas.

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chara   
2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Sorry - I didn't notice the context - so jumped to Chelsea having lost so much identity recently.  My error.  But I'm on a roll now, so I just carry on regardless...

We have gone from a team with heritage to a team which is largely a bunch of unsettled new guys.
Since Conte arrived Rudiger over 6 months established himself as a player I can really associate at Chelsea, Christensen (who was already ours) over 6 games, and Kante over about 30 mins.   I'd like to welcome Zappacosta to that list, but we never see him.  Then there is a long bunch of players who feel as much Chelsea as Pato or de  Lucas.

Agree with you there Droy. Gets harder as you get older and  cynicism sets in but Chelsea are still my team and from Bonetti to PC and so many players in between have related to so many but now the list gets smaller and not many stay long enough to become Chelsea Legends

A friend of mine who played top level football (a Chelsea man for all that) told me of how much pleasure he got one Sunday turning out for the old Chelsea Legends side Ossie and the like.

Those were examples of whom we miss I believe.

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10 minutes ago, chara said:

Agree with you there Droy. Gets harder as you get older and  cynicism sets in but Chelsea are still my team and from Bonetti to PC and so many players in between have related to so many but now the list gets smaller and not many stay long enough to become Chelsea Legends

A friend of mine who played top level football (a Chelsea man for all that) told me of how much pleasure he got one Sunday turning out for the old Chelsea Legends side Ossie and the like.

Those were examples of whom we miss I believe.

Not quite what I meant.  

Yes generally a top club turns over its players faster, brings in a lot of expensive talent and dumps much of it quick and invariably punts out its ageing stars for their last few years at a lesser level.  So at Chelsea (I hope) we will never see the Bonettis and Choppers stay with the club into the 2nd division.  
But there is still in PL football some continuity.  Few English players ever play for more than 1 big English club, and not many foreign players do either.  
Spurs, Arsenal all have quite a few players who have been part of the team for a few years.  Liverpool and Man U too.  Even Man City have Kompany whose been there for ages, and Silva, plus a bunch of players the fans (quite naturally) took to very quickly.

So I'm hoping this is just a short term thing with this squad.  As so many people point out - far too many placeholders, not enough names to be carved onto the locker doors permanently.

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Holymoly   
On 10/07/2018 at 10:02 PM, Droy was my hero said:

So I'm hoping this is just a short term thing with this squad.  As so many people point out - far too many placeholders, not enough names to be carved onto the locker doors permanently.

It could so easily be changed however by the inclusion of a few of the vast number of academy players we produce so successfully into the first team squad as opposed to, at best, the outer reaches of the squad. I know some people will argue they don't currently make it because they're not good enough but my take on it is that the youngsters are discriminated against because, by and large, they are British and not as sexy as a foreigner with a cool sounding name. Look at the players at the World Cup representing England. I wonder how many of them would would be there if they had been forced to fight through the ranks at Cobham. You can't tell me that Sterling would have been given a chance at Chelsea. Cahill was parachuted in as a starter and RLC earned his place on loan. Maybe the good thing to come out of Moscow is that clubs start to take young English players seriously. A few of "our own" in the team would give us back that sense of identity.

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2 hours ago, Holymoly said:

It could so easily be changed however by the inclusion of a few of the vast number of academy players we produce so successfully into the first team squad as opposed to, at best, the outer reaches of the squad. I know some people will argue they don't currently make it because they're not good enough but my take on it is that the youngsters are discriminated against because, by and large, they are British and not as sexy as a foreigner with a cool sounding name. Look at the players at the World Cup representing England. I wonder how many of them would would be there if they had been forced to fight through the ranks at Cobham. You can't tell me that Sterling would have been given a chance at Chelsea. Cahill was parachuted in as a starter and RLC earned his place on loan. Maybe the good thing to come out of Moscow is that clubs start to take young English players seriously. A few of "our own" in the team would give us back that sense of identity.

A-****ing-men.

 

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3 hours ago, Holymoly said:

It could so easily be changed however by the inclusion of a few of the vast number of academy players we produce so successfully into the first team squad as opposed to, at best, the outer reaches of the squad. I know some people will argue they don't currently make it because they're not good enough but my take on it is that the youngsters are discriminated against because, by and large, they are British and not as sexy as a foreigner with a cool sounding name. Look at the players at the World Cup representing England. I wonder how many of them would would be there if they had been forced to fight through the ranks at Cobham. You can't tell me that Sterling would have been given a chance at Chelsea. Cahill was parachuted in as a starter and RLC earned his place on loan. Maybe the good thing to come out of Moscow is that clubs start to take young English players seriously. A few of "our own" in the team would give us back that sense of identity.

Certainly if Chalobah and Ake were still part of the squad I'd feel a lot better and there'd be a real sense of continuity.
But I don't think players are discriminated against.  RLC certainly had buckets of opportunities for the first team - he failed to take them, producing just 10 minutes of proper class in a Chelsea shirt.  RLC is an example of how not to do it.

From Bertrand's pov a move was the right thing.  From Chalobah and Ake's pov the same.  

3 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Look at the players at the World Cup representing England. I wonder how many of them would would be there if they had been forced to fight through the ranks at Cobham. You can't tell me that Sterling would have been given a chance at Chelsea. Cahill was parachuted in as a starter and RLC earned his place on loan

Lingard - 4 seasons on loan to championship clubs.  1 PL appearance at 21 (I guess an August game) and then introduced into the first team 3 seasons ago aged 22 and been regularly present (83 appearances over 3 years.  Sounds to me exactly like Bertrand, Ake, Chalobah, Abraham, the key difference being the level he was at when he returned to Man U.

Dele Alli - 2 full seasons in Div One but then ready for a full Spurs season aged 19.  Other than Abraham, we have not had any young player ready to be picked on merit in the Prem at 19.  Abraham could play a part for us next season (I'd prefer another loan with more game time).  But we have to accept that Dele Alli is simply better than any of the kids we brought through.

Harry Kane - 3 years away on loan, then just 6 starts in his first season.  A regular (undoubtedly on merit) after he was 21.  Better than any of our kids and arguably breaking into a weaker team than our kids, but same loan system, same policies.

Sterling.  Thing about Sterling is that he offers adult energy with youth pace.  People like to slag him off, but essentially he was a teenage prodigy who was only 18 half-way through his second season when he made 36 appearances in all comps.  By all means choose not to like him, but it is pretty clear he got picked on performances, not on some kind of Liverpool kids policy.

I could go on, but what seems pretty clear to me is that pretty much all clubs have the same policy as Chelsea.  The only difference being that the really talented kids haven't turned up at Chelsea yet. 
 

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