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15 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

Harry Kane - 3 years away on loan, then just 6 starts in his first season.  A regular (undoubtedly on merit) after he was 21.  Better than any of our kids and arguably breaking into a weaker team than our kids, but same loan system, same policies.

 

And lets not forget that Spurs didn't rate him , in fact they spent their Bale monies on two Spanish Centre forwards to keep him out further from contention for a starting place , the fact that they spent millions on two utter duds and eventually threw him in as a last desperate throw of the dice ( I think in a cup game from memory ) and he then took the chance their transfer policy had up til then been denying him. Dressed up as another reason to love Pinnochio and his desire to blood the kids.

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Holymoly   
17 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I could go on, but what seems pretty clear to me is that pretty much all clubs have the same policy as Chelsea.  The only difference being that the really talented kids haven't turned up at Chelsea yet. 
 

And yet as a "team" they appear streets ahead of the rest. Maybe you should stop looking for the next Messi out of our academy and admit that football is a team game.

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Holymoly   
20 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I could go on, but what seems pretty clear to me is that pretty much all clubs have the same policy as Chelsea.

I don't really want to aspire to be Liverpool in blue. I don't care what does and what doesn't happen at other clubs or in other countries. Look at Croatia with the population of Scotland, no academy and half a dozen football pitches (ok I admit I'm exaggerating). They got to the final without trying to emulate St Georges. Maybe if Chelsea FC tried to forge a club "ethos", we might be able to get where we want to go for far less money than we currently waste. I've said this for ages, a squad with a bedrock of academy schooled players with 2 or 3 superstar names would probably do quite well over the long run.

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16 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I don't really want to aspire to be Liverpool in blue. I don't care what does and what doesn't happen at other clubs or in other countries. Look at Croatia with the population of Scotland, no academy and half a dozen football pitches (ok I admit I'm exaggerating). They got to the final without trying to emulate St Georges. Maybe if Chelsea FC tried to forge a club "ethos", we might be able to get where we want to go for far less money than we currently waste. I've said this for ages, a squad with a bedrock of academy schooled players with 2 or 3 superstar names would probably do quite well over the long run.

Again spot on. 

The list of recent academy graduates we have let go that would be good enough to be squad players here is quite long. Instead we get rid and buy squad replacements for 'big money' that could and should have been used to buy players that make a real difference. The players there aren't too many of in this world.

But no, we spend our money on buying squad players all the while having the best academy in England. 

It's madness.

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36 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

I don't really want to aspire to be Liverpool in blue. I don't care what does and what doesn't happen at other clubs or in other countries. Look at Croatia with the population of Scotland, no academy and half a dozen football pitches (ok I admit I'm exaggerating). They got to the final without trying to emulate St Georges. Maybe if Chelsea FC tried to forge a club "ethos", we might be able to get where we want to go for far less money than we currently waste. I've said this for ages, a squad with a bedrock of academy schooled players with 2 or 3 superstar names would probably do quite well over the long run.

I'm good with some club identity.  I just don't think the club can be accused of treating our kids any differently to the way other clubs do it.  It is a great shame that the last 12 years of a very expensive Academy hasn't produced any final product yet.

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paulw66   
12 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I'm good with some club identity.  I just don't think the club can be accused of treating our kids any differently to the way other clubs do it.  It is a great shame that the last 12 years of a very expensive Academy hasn't produced any final product yet.

RLC was part of the England squad that made the semi finals. 

Nathan Ake is a regular for Holland, Bournemouth POTY and was sold for approx 20m

Chalobah......has played for England, would have been more but for injury

Bertrand......has played 19 times for England 

Jack Cork.....played for England

All of these, particularly the first 4 could have been used in the first team squad and prevented us from spending a fortune on players like Baba Rahman and Drinkwater. Not saying any of these are world beaters (yet) but they certainly fall under the definition of "final product" 

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11 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

All of these, particularly the first 4 could have been used in the first team squad and prevented us from spending a fortune on players like Baba Rahman and Drinkwater. Not saying any of these are world beaters (yet) but they certainly fall under the definition of "final product" 

Sure  they have done well (and almost entirely as a result of their loans) ,  and good to give Jack Cork a mention.  I don't think any of them fall in the class Lingard, Alli, Kane or Sterling though.  Let alone in the class of 22 year olds we would want to buy.*

*I'll leave RLC as a still can't tell.

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Holymoly   
23 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I'm good with some club identity.  I just don't think the club can be accused of treating our kids any differently to the way other clubs do it.  It is a great shame that the last 12 years of a very expensive Academy hasn't produced any final product yet.

Again, I couldn't care less how we treat kids compared to others. This is just I would like to see. I'd also argue that over the last 12 years we MAY have seen some final product if we had treated them differently from what we do. The established foreign players we spend vast sums on were kids once in their own country, but because their league wasn't the global brand the Premier League is they were allowed to develop in a comparative backwater. Ibrahimovic for example was not born "The Zlatan". He was allowed to develop in Sweden and Holland. Maybe if he had come through our academy, been sent out on loans for 3 or 4 years then eventually let go he wouldn't have been the player he became. Constant rejection can destroy an individual's self confidence. Again, just becasue no-one else does it this way in England doesn't mean the accepted wisdom is correct. To date all it has achieved is to reduce the numbers of home grown players in the top league to fewer than 30%.

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7 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

Again, I couldn't care less how we treat kids compared to others. This is just I would like to see. 

Fair enough - I can identify with that.

9 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

he established foreign players we spend vast sums on were kids once in their own country, but because their league wasn't the global brand the Premier League is they were allowed to develop in a comparative backwater. Ibrahimovic for example was not born "The Zlatan". He was allowed to develop in Sweden and Holland. Maybe if he had come through our academy, been sent out on loans for 3 or 4 years then eventually let go he wouldn't have been the player he became. Constant rejection can destroy an individual's self confidence. Again, just because no-one else does it this way in England doesn't mean the accepted wisdom is correct. To date all it has achieved is to reduce the numbers of home grown players in the top league to fewer than 30%.

So what is the solution?    Send out kids off on loans to comparative backwaters (which is what we do and rivals do).  Or get ourselves relegated to the Championship?

Out of interest, of the current England first XI, (largely from memory, forgive the odd error), 6 of them, Trippier, Maguire, Stones, Walker,  Young and Dele Alli, all started at Championship (or lower) clubs.  Henderson and Pickford started at Sunderland.  Kane and Lingard were at Spurs and Man U but both spent 3 years on loan before making an impression on the first team.  Only Sterling could be said to have come through at a big club but he really was a physical exception, with enormous energy at a young age.

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paulw66   
3 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Again, I couldn't care less how we treat kids compared to others. This is just I would like to see. I'd also argue that over the last 12 years we MAY have seen some final product if we had treated them differently from what we do. The established foreign players we spend vast sums on were kids once in their own country, but because their league wasn't the global brand the Premier League is they were allowed to develop in a comparative backwater. Ibrahimovic for example was not born "The Zlatan". He was allowed to develop in Sweden and Holland. Maybe if he had come through our academy, been sent out on loans for 3 or 4 years then eventually let go he wouldn't have been the player he became. Constant rejection can destroy an individual's self confidence. Again, just becasue no-one else does it this way in England doesn't mean the accepted wisdom is correct. To date all it has achieved is to reduce the numbers of home grown players in the top league to fewer than 30%.

Zlatan is a very poor example. The Swedesh league, and even the Dutch league are not of the same competitiveness of the PL by a country mile. Giving a kid a chance is far easier. 

 

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