Michael Tucker

Chelsea 3 WAC RZ Pellets 0

61 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Zoowraa said:

Get what your saying, but I don't think it will be a case of seeing this formation every week. The signing of Kante makes even more sense after watching that tonight, he allows you to set up with players higher up the pitch due to how well he reads the game and the speed he covers the ground in. However, against quality opposition then highly likely that we will get outnumbered in there and it would be a hugely cavalier approach for Conte to take. Maybe he will, I would be a little surprised though. 

If we are going to see this style/formation on a regular basis, then I really struggle to see how Cesc has a future at Chelsea. I would say the same for Mikel too, he just don't have the energy and speed to play how Oscar and Matic did in closing down and tackling tonight. Matic looked to be struggling at times too, but I think he has the tools to adapt and his massive stride will be a great help.


I'm looking forward to the US part of pre-season to see what an Oscar/Kanté partnership offers. I agree regarding Fabregas... other than against very weak opposition at home, we won't see him in a 2 but he may still have a role to play in formations where we put a few more bodies in central midfield.

 

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3 hours ago, chelboy said:

It is a bit worrying that we are just sticking with 2 in the midfield. Even with Kante there, I would still like a 3 man midfield. I am quite surprised we have not tried out 352 formation. I think it best suits us. 2 in the midfield would not work, especially with wingers pushed that high up the field.

Haven't seen the game yet, will watch it after work. However based on the years of watching Conte and his 424/442 system the 2 in midfield isn't always a 2 in midfield per say. When possession isn't had the wide players drop back into more defensive roles and will at times tuck inside a little more than usual, (kinda like what is seen in a more classic 442 back in the day), to help support the two central midfielders and provide a bit more midfield presence. It becomes a more normal 2 man midfield when in possession because those wide players push further forward and join the attack to make it more of a 4 up top - hence the 424 name.

Conte's systems are very interchangeable depending on who has possession. It isn't just one formation that stays as such for 90 minutes, the difference is noticeable once you watch his teams regularly. For this reason, it's why he likes players that work hard with and without the ball. 

Edited by zaffo

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Thoughts:

1) Much better. Players noticeably sharper, fitter, and more aware tactically. The 4-4-2/4-2-4 was more noticeable with Traore partnering Diego up top. Having 2 up top along with the wide men staying wide (at least initially) are the more apparent differences in tactics and formation. There was a high press, with the 4 up front and 2 CM's moving together to compress the pitch. Winning the ball led to quick transitions, either via first time balls into the box, or balls slipped through the middle for the 2 up top to run onto. It's a direct style with numbers committed forward.

2) Individually, several impressed. Moses, as others have mentioned, was very sharp, and produced the direct, physical running that Conte would be impressed by. He's a proper wide option who must be kept. Willian was excellent as well. The 2 CM's did what was required, the 4 that were rotated up top all demonstrated diverse attributes. Papy, interestingly, has been preferred to Miazga. Will either be retained? I'm not so sure.  Baba was the weakest on display, whilst the youngsters deserve a point on their own.

3) Whilst Traore, RLC, and Chalobah (the goalscorers) all impressed, I think Aina is the one to really look out for. He played the full 90, on either side, and was completely at ease. He's been the most impressive FB on display and increasingly looking like a serious first choice option. Azpi and Aina as the starting FB's? I won't be surprised if it happens.

4) Pellets were poor. Yes they've had a longer pre-season and they're fitter, and yes we looked sharper and more in tune, but they were poor. Just as the last game, we shouldn't read too much into the score. Still, a noticeable improvement. The U.S tour will shed further light.  

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Great fun watcing us go with two on top, haven't seen that since the early day of Mou's first season I think.

Also delighted to see Traore, Chalobah, Aina and RLC do well, maybe finally they and other deserving youngsters will get a real chance? Ah well, better not get my hopes up..

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^^^

First half of the 09/10 season when Ancelotti played a diamond with Didier and Anelka up top. 

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12 hours ago, Zoowraa said:

If we are going to see this style/formation on a regular basis, then I really struggle to see how Cesc has a future at Chelsea. I would say the same for Mikel too, he just don't have the energy and speed to play how Oscar and Matic did in closing down and tackling tonight. Matic looked to be struggling at times too, but I think he has the tools to adapt and his massive stride will be a great help.

I was thinking this aswell as he doesn't have the fight and desire as what will be needed in a 2 man midfield. However, I am sure he used to play the central 'focal' point for Barcelona a fair bit, deployed as a false 9. Might see him playing this role for us? Loftus-cheek is being given ago up top, he might try it with Fabregas? Maybe, just a thought though.......

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45 minutes ago, A Blue Essien said:

^^^

First half of the 09/10 season when Ancelotti played a diamond with Didier and Anelka up top. 

Ah, right. Forgot about that, thanks

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20 minutes ago, Carefree1991 said:

I was thinking this aswell as he doesn't have the fight and desire as what will be needed in a 2 man midfield. However, I am sure he used to play the central 'focal' point for Barcelona a fair bit, deployed as a false 9. Might see him playing this role for us? Loftus-cheek is being given ago up top, he might try it with Fabregas? Maybe, just a thought though.......

Fabregas should be fine playing CM because he's not going to be dragged between trying to fill two roles in the side like he was previously. Our two wide men will pick up much of the slack with supporting the forwards compared to previously, as they'll be in that 4 upfront setup when in possession. The need for the CM's to push up as much decreases and will allow Cesc to spray the ball around more from deeper. More so when Conte favours his sides to play through the wider areas of the pitch. 

The one situation though that could be cause for concern is if we lose possession easily in our attacking third and the two wide players don't work hard enough back, then his lack of athletic ability could be exposed. Though, we also have the engine that is Kante to help negate that as much as possible now. 

We've got more pressing matters than Cesc at this point though.

 

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The two wide men taking some the strain of him moving side to side is a good point, especially if he's played on the side that Willian plays, as Hazard can be lazy, but then we just play Kante on Hazard's side. For me, I'd still prefer to see Oscar in the two man midfield.

Absolutely, alot more issues that need resolving, it's still early days as well. I'm excited to see how it all unfolds over the next few weeks!

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TBH I hope that isn't indicative of the style we are looking to impose. People seem super excited by the idea of an Italian Sam Allardyce (widemen go forward, but also track back...like the old days! This is a brand new invention! Tonk it up to the forward quick! Run Around!), but there is a ceiling. If you're that aggressive in your positioning, high in your tempo and wasteful with possession, you are setting yourself a very tough task. Something will give. 

I also don't think that most of our squad particularly suit that style of football, but it'll take better opposition that this rabble trying not to break a nail to show that up.  

10 hours ago, zaffo said:

based on the years of watching Conte and his 424/442 system

He's played 3-5-2 for all of the last 5 years, apart from a couple of months early on at Juve. 

Where were you "watching" him play a system he wasn't using? 

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