• Current Donation Goals

Michael Tucker

Official: David Luiz Joins Arsenal

Recommended Posts

Sea foot   
2 minutes ago, Patnevinswedge said:

I stand by those words. You would appear to agree given your preferences? As for "any other team" no team serious on winning anything would accept that status quo. Self defeating arguement really.

How you get that I agree with you from that is a bit of a mystery. And what is a self defeating argument about saying our back up CBs are better than anybody else's back ups.

I am happy to see Luiz against the dippers, I think he will have a good game. I really hope that he will and I really hope that you agree with me on that unless you want to be one of those "I told you so" types. (Not that I think you are but there are a few on here.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sea foot said:

How you get that I agree with you from that is a bit of a mystery. And what is a self defeating argument about saying our back up CBs are better than anybody else's back ups.

I am happy to see Luiz against the dippers, I think he will have a good game. I really hope that he will and I really hope that you agree with me on that unless you want to be one of those "I told you so" types. (Not that I think you are but there are a few on here.)

 

Your chosen first choice centre backs do not include Luiz? So you must agree? Our back up centre halfs "are better than anybody else's" which is your opinion not fact.

I'm not a told you so type, but I have an opinion and until (hopefully in this case) proven wrong I stick to it, unlike some on here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sea foot said:

But the "actual debate" I was answering to was the "calamity" and the "widespread fears" part. Not about whether or not he is a significant upgrade. Ideally I would prefer a fit Zouma and fit Terry in the side but as we haven't got that, a 3rd and 4th choice of Cahill and Luiz Is something that any other team would be happy with.

Indeed, but there are some posters here who much prefer to suck the joy out of life than see the positive side of anything!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Bob Singleton said:

Indeed, but there are some posters here who much prefer to suck the joy out of life than see the positive side of anything!

 

Thanks for the endorsement. I'm always pleased when I'm on the opposite side of an arguement to you! 

So Bob is Luiz your first choice CB?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sea foot   
1 hour ago, Patnevinswedge said:

Your chosen first choice centre backs do not include Luiz? So you must agree? Our back up centre halfs "are better than anybody else's" which is your opinion not fact.

I'm not a told you so type, but I have an opinion and until (hopefully in this case) proven wrong I stick to it, unlike some on here.

Why must I agree? Saying that Luiz isn't as good as a fit Terry (the best CB in the last 20 years at least) does not in any way shape or form means that I agree that having him is a calamity. Although having said that, contrary to some posters on here, I think that this is Terry's last season as first choice (hope I'm wrong), so having a good back up is a good move.

Do you not agree that our back up CBs are better than any other teams back ups?

Obviously everything I post on here is just an opinion of mine and so should be taken with a pinch of salt. BTW I did say that I didn't see you as told you so type. :-) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
paulw66   
11 hours ago, Sea foot said:

Why must I agree? Saying that Luiz isn't as good as a fit Terry (the best CB in the last 20 years at least) does not in any way shape or form means that I agree that having him is a calamity. Although having said that, contrary to some posters on here, I think that this is Terry's last season as first choice (hope I'm wrong), so having a good back up is a good move.

Do you not agree that our back up CBs are better than any other teams back ups?

Obviously everything I post on here is just an opinion of mine and so should be taken with a pinch of salt. BTW I did say that I didn't see you as told you so type. :-) 

In whatever order you put them in, Cahill, JT, Luiz and Zouma is a fantastic set of options, and yes I agree is the best set of CBs in the league. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 16 September 2016 at 9:56 AM, paulw66 said:

In whatever order you put them in, Cahill, JT, Luiz and Zouma is a fantastic set of options, and yes I agree is the best set of CBs in the league. 

JT yes. And funnily enough we looked rudderless last night. Cahill without him as he is for England becomes half the player. Sou a has the potential but only that. Luiz? I didn't see anything last night to,change my view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On September 15, 2016 at 7:36 PM, Droy was my hero said:

I've not seen that.  Quite a few jokes about how watching Luiz is more "interesting" than watching JT, but not much panic.  

Next Tuesday Luiz and Alonso were probably slated to play in the LC game at Leicester.  But the following Saturday we are at Arsenal and everyone bar Zouma is  likely to be fit.  So it will be interesting to see who gets picked then.  My guess is that the club expect Conte to pick Luiz.  It will be a very interesting selection.

Do you suspect that last night's performances by Luiz/Cahill will alter Conte's thinking for Tuesday or Saturday? At LCFC Chels will likely boss possession and have pressure on the CB pairing only intermittently which suits Cahill more than Luiz(historically and imho) because David tends to wander more often with the spaces to wander into and in the past Cahill had better concentration than his partner. However, The King Power holds a few cards that could affect our whole back four for the Arsenal match-will Conte noiw want to finally change things more pernanently and start endging Brana out and Dave back across? Wiull he want to risk Alonso against Mahrez in his debut? Might he let Ola be a potential sacrificial lamb? I don't think it's a straightforward choice for Conte unless he's approachiung it, as I would, with the idea in his mind of just getting as settled a back four as possible and, at last, trying to get some blance to it in terms of left footers on the left etc AND in terms of goiung forward as well as back-if Hazard had an overlapping 25 year old Cole he wouldn't be double marked out of games nearly so often and Alonso is clearly okay going forwards so it must be time to try to alter something, surely?

I think something has to be done so that Conte's worries about our back four stop dictating what he does with midfield because right now we are being way too reactive and a little timid, imho, because of our weaknesses at the back. Once Conte has done what he promised and placed people in their preferred or natural positions it will be much fairer to judge him-my concern is that this process doesn't seem to have started and I wonder why not? If Conte feels Olka, Alonso, Luiz have no chance of improving the defence in it's current malaise then did we miss out on several defensive signings in several positions and not just the obvious Koulibaly?  I guess I'm just frustrated at seeing great servants liuke Cahill and Bane embarrassed on a seemingly weekly basis evcen when Conte picks a midfield to prop them up. Thees are guys who have walked through walls for Chelsea yet are being belittled because manager after manager has kept picking them anfd failing to sign replacements for them in wndow after window-Luiz was good last night and among the back four, for me, was alone in being so. It's a natural move, then, in my eyes to play Azpiliqueta at RB, Alonso at LB and Luiz at LCB at Leiceister-whether Conte goes with Cahill or Bane to partner Luiz is a good quandry but on last night's showing unless Luiz is awful at the KP then he's in pole to partner the returning JT at the Emirates. It was a terrible performance by Brana last night and having watched it back it only gets worse. I love the guy but surely it's time to get him away from the RB berth. Sure, try him at CB if he's got pace alongside him but it's way too manyt bad games in two years at RB to go on. Also, Cahill without JT is becoming equally shoddy and it says something that Luiz, after all the fans and media wailing actually looked outr most composed and effective defender last night. Whether that's that it was largely nonsense to begin with, of course, id open for debate!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, mastiffchild said:

I think something has to be done so that Conte's worries about our back four stop dictating what he does with midfield because right now we are being way too reactive and a little timid, imho, because of our weaknesses at the back.

I commented a lot on the match day thread here.

Certainly worry about the defence is messing a lot up.  Normally teams with a strong defence can sit, teams with a poor defence try to do anything but sit.  And teams with a Fabregas play him.

On individuals, point to the individuals who was incompetent here.  It is NOT the individuals.

Liverpool first.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I commented a lot on the match day thread here.

Certainly worry about the defence is messing a lot up.  Normally teams with a strong defence can sit, teams with a poor defence try to do anything but sit.  And teams with a Fabregas play him.

On individuals, point to the individuals who was incompetent here.  It is NOT the individuals.

Liverpool first.PNG

Sure, on that occasion it's a collectiuve screw up. However, you know as well as I do that collectiuve errors are also caused by and made worse by a lack of clarity brought about via a misunderstanding of tactics and coinfidence being undermined by a slew of poor personal showings over a long time. You know, too, that Ivanovic was beaten for pace and turned inside out to the point of often borderline fouls many, many times both last night and over the past year, Cahill has made backing off and being totally puzzled by simple movements something of a trademark and even Dave has started toi see his standards, defensively, slip rtadically lately. I accept that there's an element of the tactics bringing the midfield on top of the defenders making things even muddier especially last night but I don't accept thgat the same shortcomings, even if they didn't result in the goals against us that they shgould have, aren't still there in some individuals performances week in and week out. I'm not saying it's just the same players making the same errors but I'm puzzled if you're saying that Cahill and Brana have cleaned up their acvts personally. Big point with that is that when a team doesn't trust it's back four the natural instinct is for midfielders to help out "too much" and you can see it from kids games upowards and it leads to a lack of positioning and disasters like you've shown there-maybe I'm not so much disagreeing here as getting into a chicken and egg? Just because we weren't p[unished for the individual(and Cahills clearance counts for me)errors last night doesn'r mean they aren't still happening and those players don't need changing AND it also doesn't mean, in fairness, that some isn't tactically caused. Howevcer, as said, I'd much reather judge Conte once he starts(at least) putting these square pegs in their square holes because I fear whatever tatical changes he makes without doing so will result in short term fgains at best and games like last nights first half at worst. My big issue is why hasn't it really seemed to start yet? If you or I knew for sure the reason behind the low block maybe we could judge but as I suspect it's because he doesn't trust the back four I don't see it improving until he changes it and, again, signs of that actually happening are thin on the ground. Hoping KP will see changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now