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Victor Moses

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3 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Depends what your definition of success and failure is really. I think it has taken a few years to tweak but, some examples

Lukaku and KdB - bought for £20m, sold for £45m

Courtois - picked up for £7m, developed for 3 years on loan

Moses - took a while, but is now very much a first team player

Christiensen - could well be a first team regular, or could be sold for big money (if reports are to be believed)

Ake - has had two years PL football under his belt, now part of the squad. Could have been sold for £18m

Bamford - sold for £8m

Chalobah - mixed loans but now seems to be a squad option

Abraham - had a brilliant 2/3 of season scoring goals in the championship

There are others (Baker, Palmer etc) but If you take the last 5 on the list, what would they have done without a loan(s)? Continued playing U21 football and not progressing? 

Of course there are a bunch of failures, but that is always going to happen. 

Even players like Kalas, Piazon, Brown, Atsu will be moved on for decent money I expect 

At this point in time, the only loan players that can be considered a success are KDB, Lukaku and Courtois imo. 

Moses loan stints where largely disappointing and he didn't really progress during those three years. Is he a better player today compared to three years ago? 

Bamford? Bought for 5 sold for 8. Take salary in that period plus agent fees and we'd have made a solid loss overall. 

The jury is still very much out on the rest. 

Considering we have 30-35 players on loan per season, the conversion rate is pretty darn lousy I'd say. 

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1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

At this point in time, the only loan players that can be considered a success are KDB, Lukaku and Courtois imo. 

Moses loan stints where largely disappointing and he didn't really progress during those three years. Is he a better player today compared to three years ago? 

Bamford? Bought for 5 sold for 8. Take salary in that period plus agent fees and we'd have made a solid loss overall. 

The jury is still very much out on the rest. 

Considering we have 30-35 players on loan per season, the conversion rate is pretty darn lousy I'd say. 

In respect of line 1, I would say Ake, Christiensen and Abraham have all been unequivocal success stories at their loan clubs, and all three could be sold for very, very good money. I don't want that to happen BTW. 

Bamford for bought for 1,5m 

Talking about "conversion rate" what does that mean? You can't loan out 30 players and expect half to be first team players. My original question stands, how are you qualifying a "success"?

The best 18 year olds or so get too good for the U21 league, but not good enough to play for Chelsea. So what do you do? You have to loan them out or they stagnate. A success (in the eyes of the club and player moreover) could be that he is loaned out for 3 seasons, then is sold for a healthy fee and carves a decent career for themselves somewhere. PL, Championship, Bundesliga, whatever......... The conversion rate of young players getting into OUR first team squad is always going to be low as the standard is so high 

 

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6 hours ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Is there a logic to the loan system? 

Someone should ask Emenalo. Seems like ludicrous empire-building activity on his behalf if you ask me. 

The whole loan system malarkey has been a massive failure imo. 

There is no "loan system".  The loan system is just where various projects go for a while before they either fail or succeed or do neither (the living dead as called by Venture capitalists, too good to close down, not good enough to make much money).

There are actual programs run by the club - getting in kids U14 free, getting them at 16 for a small fee, bringing in kids at 17 or 18 for real money, getting 19/21yos who already play U21 for their country, and getting established young internationals.
These are the programs that should be judged.

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