Michael Tucker

Burnley 1 Chelsea 1

179 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Blue Rod said:

I don't see anyone being critical of Conte, not a single member of this forum. Even Droy is now standing in the right place, or at least thinks we may just be. The truth of the matter is, we have busted our guts to get here against all expectations. We are not prepared to just roll over and start talking about top 4. 

I make no apology for my criticism of the shenanigans of Jose Mourinho. We've moved on. And if Conte was to drag us down that path I would do the same. We are in transition, which we all agree is going miles better than we ever imagined. But we want to win the bloody thing, now that we've come this close. We are now talking about how we can make sure we don't slip up in this final 3rd. There will be frank exchange of opinions. But that's only for the better. 

Happy to see and take part in fair criticism, but I can't help but notice some overheating when we walk away with less than three points, as though we're expecting to win every single match without question.  Even in your post here, there is a tone of elevated tension beyond reasonable.

I don't think it is true to say we busted a gut to get here as that implies we intended to go for the title from the very start of the season, and that we have worked hard towards that as a priority.  Instead I feel Conte has worked towards developing the first team into an organised winning team match by match.  Our position in the table is purely a symptom of that.  Clearly I  take interest in our title hopes, and it would be a delight to take the title, and a disappointment not to with just a few months to go, but I see our continuing development as the priority.

Agree that I'd like to think we have moved on from JM's time here, particularly in match threads, so I'm not sure why you have mentioned him when I didn't in the post quoted(?).

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30 minutes ago, StebzAno said:

Happy to see and take part in fair criticism, but I can't help but notice some overheating when we walk away with less than three points, as though we're expecting to win every single match without question.  Even in your post here, there is a tone of elevated tension beyond reasonable.

I don't think it is true to say we busted a gut to get here as that implies we intended to go for the title from the very start of the season, and that we have worked hard towards that as a priority.  Instead I feel Conte has worked towards developing the first team into an organised winning team match by match.  Our position in the table is purely a symptom of that.  Clearly I  take interest in our title hopes, and it would be a delight to take the title, and a disappointment not to with just a few months to go, but I see our continuing development as the priority.

Agree that I'd like to think we have moved on from JM's time here, particularly in match threads, so I'm not sure why you have mentioned him when I didn't in the post quoted(?).

Good response. I must put my hands up,  I was referring to an earlier post where Jose was mentioned. Nothing to do with your sensible post.

I think Conte is making the utmost best of what we've got. Give this team to any other manager in the league,  after the season we've just had, and we'd be celebrating the prospect of top 4 like we've won the league.

Conte has to watch out though. Costa may have warmed to us. But there is nothing quite as head turning as the prospect of earning £4m a year in China. I hope we get £80m for his departure in the summer. For now, Conte has to bring out his ruthless best and place Chelsea above everything else. 

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1 hour ago, Blue Rod said:

I hope we get £80m for his departure in the summer.

Why would we get that much for sending him when their season is half way over?  The price went down the moment their season began.

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1 minute ago, Droy was my hero said:

Why would we get that much for sending him when their season is half way over?  The price went down the moment their season began.

Pretty sure that they plan to play more than one season, though...........

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1 hour ago, Blue Rod said:

Good response. I must put my hands up,  I was referring to an earlier post where Jose was mentioned. Nothing to do with your sensible post.

I think Conte is making the utmost best of what we've got. Give this team to any other manager in the league,  after the season we've just had, and we'd be celebrating the prospect of top 4 like we've won the league.

Conte has to watch out though. Costa may have warmed to us. But there is nothing quite as head turning as the prospect of earning £4m a year in China. I hope we get £80m for his departure in the summer. For now, Conte has to bring out his ruthless best and place Chelsea above everything else. 

That makes sense, kudos for honesty perhaps I misread your reply also.  It is difficult sometimes to attribute sections of peoples posts to different contexts / points for reference.  Again a limitation of interpreting what people are trying to say solely by words on a screen, and also where we often respond to multiple points within the same post.

I'm certain Costa's head was turned if only a little by China, but I'd like to think that now the opportunity is closed at least until Summer, his performance isn't now distracted by it.  Even at the time of the media hype, unless it was a really good bit of PR, his actions on social media and on the pitch indicated a man still very much committed to Chelsea, and not entertained by idle gossip.

When it comes to individual performance though we've been here before recently with Hazard's quiet patch and convincing me he's playing with an injury before that stellar run and finish against Arsenal.  Matic has also been giving strong performances, and must have some reason for being picked almost every time, yet after Burnley he is annihilated on here.  Fabregas is praised for the few minutes he has on the pitch, but is that a fair yard stick against those that have started and played for so many more minutes when the opposition have been at their strongest?  I doubt also that Conte and co will want to air any indication of fatigue or minor injury, which are possible hidden explanations for individual performance dips.

I do therefore try to avoid being critical of the odd individual mistake or bad game, and instead appraise ingenuity, or look for where we can improve tactically.

I do think the teams we face for a good month ahead will try to limit play rather than come and attack us unless they see an opportunistic counter.  And although it's difficult to feel inclined to change an unbroken wheel, with Liverpool and Arsenal done, it may well now be time to change tact and start Fabregas.  Our current defensive midfield maybe good at cutting out attacks and recycling the ball, but IMO against the teams ahead, we are going to need someone to carry the ball to Costa, should we take the direct route, as oppose to throwing the ball into a pack.

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It's understandable to get the jitters at this stage of the season.For me what Conte has done with this group of players borders on miraculous.Other teams are trying to stop us playing which is the biggest compliment you can pay to a team.

When you look at the team sheet there are areas were you think jeeze; we look weak there.Conte has brought balance to the team in a very short time and has average players playing very well,however that can last in the short term but in the long term we need more quality players(with the right attitude)especially when the champions league beckons next year

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2 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Pretty sure that they plan to play more than one season, though...........

Sure but the stakes went up for this season and they are really making much more of a go.  First mover advantages are all about 2017, not 2018.

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4 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Sure but the stakes went up for this season and they are really making much more of a go.  First mover advantages are all about 2017, not 2018.

Some people may think I'm just being paranoid, but there is a devil's hand in all this.  Jorge Mendes has made a fortune from his dealings with Chelsea over the years.  He knows how important Costa is for the present Chelsea team. He must have known exactly what he was doing in the Costa business.  After reading the response from the Chinese club's spokesperson I started to doubt that their intention was to sign Costa in the first place, laying out such astronomical amount in transfer fee and wages. 

To me it looked like a ploy to unsettle Costa and derail Chelsea's title bid. It could also be a publicity stunt from the Chinese club. The Chinese person who spoke did not sound convincing to me at all. 

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7 hours ago, StebzAno said:

When it comes to individual performance though we've been here before recently with Hazard's quiet patch and convincing me he's playing with an injury before that stellar run and finish against Arsenal.  Matic has also been giving strong performances, and must have some reason for being picked almost every time, yet after Burnley he is annihilated on here.  Fabregas is praised for the few minutes he has on the pitch, but is that a fair yard stick against those that have started and played for so many more minutes when the opposition have been at their strongest?  I doubt also that Conte and co will want to air any indication of fatigue or minor injury, which are possible hidden explanations for individual performance dips.

I have absolutely no doubt that fatigue is playing a major part in any dip in our performance that we saw at Burnley. Liverpool only managed a handful of matches with high intensity pressing before they went to pieces. Now they're up again, but fatigue will definitely return to them. We went on for much longer, but sooner or later the boys were going to tire. Conte must have realised that when he gave them 2 days off. Some may question how well some players used the 2 days.

The thing though is, different players cope differently with fatigue. Some keep their games simple, neat and safe, others make lots of mistakes. It's almost as if one set of players tire physically but keep awake mentally, while others tire in both. I'm afraid, Matic belongs to the latter group, and I'm saying this as someone who admires aspects of his game. You can see in his body language that he wants out of the pitch when he is in that mode. 

As a team we can cope better if we systematically slow the game down and operate on the same wavelength.  It's more risky when a key midfielder is off pace from the rest.  

Edited by Blue Rod

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For me, I don't see fatigue being a big factor in our slight dip. Playing largely one game a week shouldn't have that impact, while even two games a week shouldn't alter it much given most of these players have played in far busier schedules with European football etc. I see there being a dip in a few individuals form, while having a bit of a break at times can impact players differently too. Lampard often spoke about how he needed a run of games to get into rhythm and that will apply with others also. Costa lost his after his little incident and being left out and has yet to recapture it, Matic is someone I see who needs games to get a feel and so on. 

Conte has mentioned that everybody needs to do their job for the system to remain cohesive and functioning. Against Burnley, a few individuals simply didn't do enough; Costa and Matic being two of the main ones. The other big aspect was the way Burnley played and defended well, while some of our flaws were exposed (not enough targets in the box for our WB's to deliver balls into). Piece together all these and sometimes we'll not be able to recover a result and 3 points. 

That said, it's one game and given the context of it a point is still a reasonable return. I'd begin to be more worried if we fail to pick up 3 points in a few of our next fixtures while performances of a few individuals still lack. 

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