Michael Tucker

Chelsea 1 Manchester United 0

503 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, zaffo said:

It isn't. Just like it wasn't at Juventus under Conte. We're playing in more or less the exact same way, I assure you of that. He doesn't coach it, the players don't practice it (confirmed by both players and coach). If it happens, it has happened organically with however that particular moment in match has unfolded.

What we can do is play various ways, again, just like it was at Juventus under Conte. We can play on the counter, we can play with possession, we can sit back and soak up pressure, we can play higher and press sides and we can play it long and direct. The one constant is that we're always organised, irrespective of which variant of play we're involved in. We've got the ability to switch between these as required. We could spend 20 minutes playing deeper and soaking up some pressure, then the next 70 on the front foot and pushed higher up, etc etc. 

Conte certainly hasn't built us around the counter-attack. Just as we aren't a defensive team, we're defensively solid, but not defensive. 

Quite clear you're a Conte fan then.

At the end of the day, we play a counter-attacking style. It's really not even up for discussion imo. I may have to add that I don't mind that one bit, but let's call a spade a spade yeah? 

But I suppose that some may have a bit more vested in making up the reality instead of accepting it for what it really is. 

Edit: much like the claim that 74 is more than 1549. 

Edited by Sleeping Dave

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12 hours ago, zaffo said:

It isn't. Just like it wasn't at Juventus under Conte. We're playing in more or less the exact same way, I assure you of that. He doesn't coach it, the players don't practice it (confirmed by both players and coach). If it happens, it has happened organically with however that particular moment in match has unfolded.

What we can do is play various ways, again, just like it was at Juventus under Conte. We can play on the counter, we can play with possession, we can sit back and soak up pressure, we can play higher and press sides and we can play it long and direct. The one constant is that we're always organised, irrespective of which variant of play we're involved in. We've got the ability to switch between these as required. We could spend 20 minutes playing deeper and soaking up some pressure, then the next 70 on the front foot and pushed higher up, etc etc. 

Conte certainly hasn't built us around the counter-attack. Just as we aren't a defensive team, we're defensively solid, but not defensive. 

Didn't you put up a long clip on Conte's Juve tactics.  All about being defensive with extremely well rehearsed counter-attacks.
It was very interest and very insightful into Conte's tactics with Chelsea.  The only thing it failed to predict was the sudden conversion to defending the whole of our half instead of the box.

Of course we play defensive football with counter-attack.  We don't really make any effort to push forward until we go behind or get to 70mins at 0-0.  Most of the time we don't even start the best attacking CM in the PL.

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Dave, I personally don't think we are a counter attacking team. We are very good at counter attacking. We are also very good at defending but that doesn't mean we are a defensive team either. I feel that we are becoming a well rounded team much like the earlier Mourinho teams. 

Droy, you can't help but have a go at Zaffo can you. He obviously likes the way Conte gets his teams to play and you don't. You don't see any value in Matic whereas others do. Why is it that you are right and others are wrong. We all see things differently, some players play the way we want to see them play, others don't. Some are easy on the eye and some are not but you can't have 11 pretty players on the field unless you want to support l'arse. 

My own opinion is that Conte is doing a wonderful job at the moment and that Mourinho did a wonderful job for us in the past. I understand Droy's and Dave's stance in the Mourinho debate. I also understand Blue Rod, Robbo and Kev's stance. I agree with a lot of what you all say and also disagree with a lot what you all say. I reckon most people see it like that. Like most things in life, it is neither black or white but a bit of both. 

I know I shouldn't get involved but I log on and read this site about 10 times a day and just get fed up with the same ol' same ol'. We are gonna win the league and have a good chance of the double, if that isn't enough for some then that is their loss. 

Sorry about that. Rant over. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Quite clear you're a Conte fan then.

At the end of the day, we play a counter-attacking style. It's really not even up for discussion imo. I may have to add that I don't mind that one bit, but let's call a spade a spade yeah? 

But I suppose that some may have a bit more vested in making up the reality instead of accepting it for what it really is. 

Edit: much like the claim that 74 is more than 1549. 

I'm a big supporter of what Conte does and how he's gone about it. I got to experience his managerial methods first hand for three successful seasons at Juventus, while seeing pieces of it prior, along with following his spell with the Azzurri afterwards. My opinion of him as a manager was something that was forged and separate from his playing days. I said on here some time ago he was a manager we should be going all out to get if he ever left Juventus, and I'm thankful we've managed to have him here now. He was a perfect fit for us and it's showing.

I believe you're flat out wrong with your stance on him employing a counter-attacking style. As I outlined previously, yes, we can play the counter if the opportunity aries in game. It's not something Conte or the players practice, again confirmed by both parties. So, essentially what you're saying is that we play a system we don't actually work on. Interesting. A look at the bigger picture and you'll see we're certainly not setup to play that way in general. It's merely something we can do. Just like we can press sides, soak up pressure, stretch the play wide or aim it more central etc. Conte allows his sides to be quite flexible with their approach, it was no different at Juve, nor any different to what we've largely seen here so far. We can adapt to many in-game situations, it's what makes us so hard to combat completely. Look back over Conte's sides and you'll begin to see the multi functioning system he's become known for.

We average 54% possession. Ironically, it's split evenly across Home and Away. We've scored 5 goals on the counter-attack total, all of which have been away. 39 from open play. Shots per game are almost identical, we average a shade under 1 less away than at home. If we're so counter attack orientated the stats would reflect that, but they don't. 

Ultimately, I'll stick with what I know based on the last 6 years of watching Conte's work. You're entitled to your view. I'll leave it at that, as this isn't up for discussion after all.

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10 minutes ago, Sea foot said:

Dave, I personally don't think we are a counter attacking team. We are very good at counter attacking. We are also very good at defending but that doesn't mean we are a defensive team either. I feel that we are becoming a well rounded team much like the earlier Mourinho teams. 

Droy, you can't help but have a go at Zaffo can you. He obviously likes the way Conte gets his teams to play and you don't. You don't see any value in Matic whereas others do. Why is it that you are right and others are wrong. We all see things differently, some players play the way we want to see them play, others don't. Some are easy on the eye and some are not but you can't have 11 pretty players on the field unless you want to support l'arse. 

My own opinion is that Conte is doing a wonderful job at the moment and that Mourinho did a wonderful job for us in the past. I understand Droy's and Dave's stance in the Mourinho debate. I also understand Blue Rod, Robbo and Kev's stance. I agree with a lot of what you all say and also disagree with a lot what you all say. I reckon most people see it like that. Like most things in life, it is neither black or white but a bit of both. 

I know I shouldn't get involved but I log on and read this site about 10 times a day and just get fed up with the same ol' same ol'. We are gonna win the league and have a good chance of the double, if that isn't enough for some then that is their loss. 

Sorry about that. Rant over. 

 

What Droy has to say, I care little for - and don't even see due to his firm placing on my ignore list. So really, whenever he quotes anything I post he's wasting his time because there will be no retort to his bait from me. We all know Droy is anti Italian, he's made that quite clear. Dismisses Italian football despite not watching. Dismissed Conte before he joined, after he joined, probably still does now. Maybe we'd be doing better if Conte got our players to stand in the right places. 

Thanks though.

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1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

Yeah or maybe were just reliant on Hazard. 

No.

1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

It's really not even up for discussion imo.

You're beginning to sound more and more like DWMH every day.

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1 hour ago, Sea foot said:

Dave, I personally don't think we are a counter attacking team. We are very good at counter attacking. We are also very good at defending but that doesn't mean we are a defensive team either. I feel that we are becoming a well rounded team much like the earlier Mourinho teams. 

Droy, you can't help but have a go at Zaffo can you. He obviously likes the way Conte gets his teams to play and you don't. You don't see any value in Matic whereas others do. Why is it that you are right and others are wrong. We all see things differently, some players play the way we want to see them play, others don't. Some are easy on the eye and some are not but you can't have 11 pretty players on the field unless you want to support l'arse. 

My own opinion is that Conte is doing a wonderful job at the moment and that Mourinho did a wonderful job for us in the past. I understand Droy's and Dave's stance in the Mourinho debate. I also understand Blue Rod, Robbo and Kev's stance. I agree with a lot of what you all say and also disagree with a lot what you all say. I reckon most people see it like that. Like most things in life, it is neither black or white but a bit of both. 

I know I shouldn't get involved but I log on and read this site about 10 times a day and just get fed up with the same ol' same ol'. We are gonna win the league and have a good chance of the double, if that isn't enough for some then that is their loss. 

Sorry about that. Rant over. 

 

Good post mate. Succinct and very well put.

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56 minutes ago, Chelsea-Till-I-Die said:

Hazard hasn't travelled and is missing the game.

I'm sure Man Utd's targeted fouling on Monday night has nothing to do with this..............

Oh dear. This is bad news.

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1 hour ago, Sea foot said:

Droy, you can't help but have a go at Zaffo can you. He obviously likes the way Conte gets his teams to play and you don't...

... You don't see any value in Matic whereas others do. Why is it that you are right and others are wrong. 

He likes the way Conte gets his teams to play, and the ways he doesn't get them to play.  He has put up  excellent descriptions in the past of how Juve and Chelsea play defensively, and has now moved on to a completely unrealistic version of the same teams.
Moreover - Conte says somewhere that we don't practice counter-attack.  Zaffo has taken it as true.  But does anyone else on the site think we do no practice counter-attack.  Of course we do.

(Imagine if JM said his team doesn't practice counter-attack ....)
BTW - I've always supported defensive football when needed - still do.  Especially in cup games and against rivals.

On Matic - look at the match threads or a rival forum.  Most people don't rate him.  I may be at the extreme end of the range, but the big majority have gone from strongly on his side to moderately against.  And it is not just because he is keeping Fabregas out of the team.  On Matic it is not me that says I am right.  It is the majority.

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