Michael Tucker

Chelsea 1 Manchester United 0

503 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, Faramir said:

Dave it doesn't matter how many times you say it, we are much more than a counter-attacking team.

The fact that we do it better than everybody else should be a cause to celebrate, not an opportunity to deride.

You should give up, you just don't get it or what I'm saying at all. 

I have never claimed we are a counter-attacking side to deride. Are you actually able to read? 

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1 hour ago, Sleeping Dave said:

You should give up, you just don't get it or what I'm saying at all. 

I have never claimed we are a counter-attacking side to deride. Are you actually able to read? 

To save me reading through hundreds of posts, and to be clear, would you agree that we currently aren't just a counter attacking side?  Our possession stats don't support the theory that we are a counter attacking side. Against the majority of teams we've played this season we have prodded and poked defences with possession and often finally broken them down by inviting them out so as to leave gaps behind. That's my recollection. 

Having said that we are the best in the league at counter attacking when the opportunity appears.  

 

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50 minutes ago, Ham said:

Our possession stats don't support the theory that we are a counter attacking side.

Not true.  I recall many games where we have dominated by along way on 40-55% possession.  So lets check.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/6335/Stages/13796/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017

6th highest possession in the League - yet far away the top team and only Liverpool have scored more (1 more).

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13 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Not true.  I recall many games where we have dominated by along way on 40-55% possession.  So lets check.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/6335/Stages/13796/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017

6th highest possession in the League - yet far away the top team and only Liverpool have scored more (1 more).

So using your advised stats reference point, that's 39 goals from open play compare to just 5 counterattack?  Oh and who's top of the table in the offensive stats, is that Chelsea?  Yes totally a defensive team reliant on counterattacking we are.

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5 minutes ago, StebzAno said:

So using your advised stats reference point, that's 39 goals from open play compare to just 5 counterattack?  Oh and who's top of the table in the offensive stats, is that Chelsea?  Yes totally a defensive team reliant on counterattacking we are.

A certain few still wish to disagree regardless of the facts. We average 54% possession home and away, while both manager and players confirm it's not a style we practise or work on in training. It merely happens if a match situation unfolds that way. I suppose this would make us the first side of this ilk. Trend setters.

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40 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Not true.  I recall many games where we have dominated by along way on 40-55% possession.  So lets check.

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/6335/Stages/13796/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2016-2017

6th highest possession in the League - yet far away the top team and only Liverpool have scored more (1 more).

How does 6th in the league for possession make my point "not true?"

You've made my point for me. Thanks. 

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24 minutes ago, StebzAno said:

So using your advised stats reference point, that's 39 goals from open play compare to just 5 counterattack?  Oh and who's top of the table in the offensive stats, is that Chelsea?  Yes totally a defensive team reliant on counterattacking we are.

I certainly wouldn't advise that as a stats reference point (though I would certainly recommend the league tables from most sites).

I would advise you to watch the matches - we do sit back and counterattack for most of most games, and rarely fully commit players forward..  

Most stats sources are dodgy - for a start try to find out what possession means.  If the ball goes out of touch does that time count for the last team to have it or the next, is it split 50/50 or is it ignored.  Does an actual definition even exist?  Headed duel - if my CB heads it 40 yards back into the opposing half does my CB counts as winning or your CF.  And if your CF forces my keeper into a save, does your CF count as winning it or my CB.  There are no rules, and in the one game I tried to match recorded event and TV viewed clip, the methodology was, lets say, unexpected.

What I would say is that both observed possession and the stats chart do not support your claim that we are not a counter attacking team.  Only that we are a very good team.

 

On the counter-attack stats the site gives Chelsea as the clear leaders in counter-attacking (1 in 6 of all counter-attack goals as opposed to 1 in 13 of all goals), which we can all agree with.  But any definition that gives just 30 counter attack goals to all 20 clubs so far this season is pretty unhelpful.

 

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Scoring counter-attacking goals frequently doesn't, by definition, necessarily make a team a counter-attacking side. Just means they're very good at it.

Some games we do play primarily to counter-attack, many games against middle/lower teams we don't. But we do hit them when we counter after they over-commit.

The main point is that our tactics this season have been pretty versatile and fluid. We have changed what we're doing mid-match to suit the game situation. That's a big reason we've been so much better than everyone else.

 

(Side point - if possession stats don't matter/aren't a good indicator then why bring them up at all?)

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7 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

1) I would advise you to watch the matches

2) Most stats sources are dodgy

 

1) Haha.  Nice one. 

2) Don't use stats then. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I certainly wouldn't advise that as a stats reference point (though I would certainly recommend the league tables from most sites).

I would advise you to watch the matches - we do sit back and counterattack for most of most games, and rarely fully commit players forward..  

Most stats sources are dodgy - for a start try to find out what possession means.  If the ball goes out of touch does that time count for the last team to have it or the next, is it split 50/50 or is it ignored.  Does an actual definition even exist?  Headed duel - if my CB heads it 40 yards back into the opposing half does my CB counts as winning or your CF.  And if your CF forces my keeper into a save, does your CF count as winning it or my CB.  There are no rules, and in the one game I tried to match recorded event and TV viewed clip, the methodology was, lets say, unexpected.

What I would say is that both observed possession and the stats chart do not support your claim that we are not a counter attacking team.  Only that we are a very good team.

On the counter-attack stats the site gives Chelsea as the clear leaders in counter-attacking (1 in 6 of all counter-attack goals as opposed to 1 in 13 of all goals), which we can all agree with.  But any definition that gives just 30 counter attack goals to all 20 clubs so far this season is pretty unhelpful.

 

Oh right, so we're NOT to use the link you referenced to back up your point.  Got it!  I do find it confusing when we are or aren't allowed to use recorded stats.

Unfortunately "advise you to watch the matches" wasn't on today's DWMH bingo card, but I do watch them, not just the highlights either, the full 90+ minutes.  Have you tried doing that?  As I think you may have missed all the times we've being in the oppositions half working their defence.

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