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3 minutes ago, Sleeping Dave said:

If one find themselves to be rubbed the wrong way now, they really need to start bracing themselves. 

Very true.  Next year will be difficult.  Especially from those that support the teams that finish 5th and 6th this season.

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chara   

Perhaps I'm  getting too old as well. Watched the Pool/Citeh game. Enjoyed the result but for me it was another EPL game, Not bad to watch but certainly not one for the memory bank.

 

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1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

Oh dear.

Firstly it is not my angle - I'm just pointing out the facts don't support the opposite angle.  Nor does observation.

Secondly you have one third of a point.  16 goals in the first half hour is impressive.  But so is 19 goals in the 2nd half hour and 24 goals in the last half hour.  Again - if you take away the fact that this is a very very good team, you can argue whatever your want.

Perhaps I misunderstood. You said "We start cautiously and remain cautious until we go a goal down or we get to 65 mins and are still even". To me, that suggests a slow start which isn't the case given we've done a good job this season usually scoring first and mostly in the first half. 

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18 minutes ago, MikelBlue said:

Perhaps I misunderstood. You said "We start cautiously and remain cautious until we go a goal down or we get to 65 mins and are still even". To me, that suggests a slow start which isn't the case given we've done a good job this season usually scoring first and mostly in the first half. 

WE do play mostly cautiously - anyone can see that.
Someone else brought goal times into to it.  No idea why they thought it supported anything.

If a team score more than 2 goals a game and concede an average of 0.75, then it is pretty clear that the team is going to score the first goal in most games, and do so in the first half mostly.  The only conclusion one can take from that is that it is a very good team.  

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5 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

WE do play mostly cautiously - anyone can see that.
Someone else brought goal times into to it.  No idea why they thought it supported anything.

If a team score more than 2 goals a game and concede an average of 0.75, then it is pretty clear that the team is going to score the first goal in most games, and do so in the first half mostly.  The only conclusion one can take from that is that it is a very good team.  

So if that's the only conclusion that one can take, then it can't be inferred that it's a predominately counter-attacking team as well. Not if that was the only conclusion it was possible to take.

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I think we do start games a in very particular way, I wouldn't call it cautious as I don't think we are particularly worried about the oposition but we do start off playing deep. I can see some would call it cautious or defensive and they would have a case but to me it is a very deliberate way of playing.

A way that allows the other team to have the ball with little pressure up until our defensive third but we are extremely confident in our ability to limit the amount of chances they have and very rarely score. That's how good this side is defensively. 

After the first 30 minutes we then push/press further up the field and play with a lot more intensity and attacking threat. We repeat this for the first  15-30 minutes of the second half and then drop deep again. Or if the opposition is so tired from chasing us all over the pitch without the ball we can generally dominate possession in the final third.

The united match is a good example of this. The media thought they were great but in reality we allowed them to play for a while then as soon as we decided to up the intensity and push further forward we absolutely dominated them.

It seems to me that it is a very deliberate tactic by Conte, one that I really like. I absolutely love the fact that we allow teams to play however they want at the beginning of the match, fully confident that we will not let them score, whilst conserving enery ourselves. We then say 'now it's our turn' and play them off the park for the middle third of the game. It's incredible to watch and genius tactics from Conte. 

Edited by Martin1905

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xCELERYx   
9 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

So if that's the only conclusion that one can take, then it can't be inferred that it's a predominately counter-attacking team as well. Not if that was the only conclusion it was possible to take.

Haven't you heard that we've become nothing more than a cautious counter attacking side. Emphasised by us not standing in the right places and Conte utilising Matic in midfield.

I guess this is what we're stuck with now as supporters of this club.

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xCELERYx   
14 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I think we do start games a in very particular way, I wouldn't call it cautious as I don't think we are particularly worried about the oposition but we do start off playing deep. I can see some would call it cautious or defensive and they would have a case but to me it is a very deliberate way of playing.

A way that allows the other team to have the ball with little pressure up until our defensive third but we are extremely confident in our ability to limit the amount of chances they have and very rarely score. That's how good this side is defensively. 

After the first 30 minutes we then push/press further up the field and play with a lot more intensity and attacking threat. We repeat this for the first  15-30 minutes of the second half and then drop deep again. Or if the opposition is so tired from chasing us all over the pitch without the ball we can generally dominate possession in the final third.

The united match is a good example of this. The media thought they were great but in reality we allowed them to play for a while then as soon as we decided to up the intensity and push further forward we absolutely dominated them.

It seems to me that it is a very deliberate tactic by Conte, one that I really like. I absolutely love the fact that we allow teams to play however they want at the beginning of the match, fully confident that we will not let them score, whilst conserving enery ourselves. We then say 'now it's our turn' and play them off the park for the middle third of the game. It's incredible to watch and genius tactics from Conte. 

Certainly a deliberate method Conte employs at times. What it does is it actually lulls the opposition onto the front foot and aids us with more space going forward, as long as we move the ball quickly. Opposition sides are likely to want to pressure us excessively early on and look to score on the break. This essentially flips the script and gives the opposition more of the ball at times early, essentially dragging them further up the pitch and leaving us with space to exploit - either on the counter or by simply good passing and movement within general play. For what can be perceived as a rather cautious approach it's also quite attack minded in a sense if we're able to capitalise. Which, from some stats posted earlier, shows we tend to score a high percentage of goals within that first 30 min block. Clearly works. 

On the other hand there's also games where we start on the front foot and more conventionally aggressive. Being able to play various ways throughout a match makes it extremely difficult for sides to shut us down. From there, the important aspect is making sure we do take the chances we get. Thankfully we've managed to do that for the majority of the season to date.

 

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14 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think there have been a few 3 or 4-0 scorelines where we dominated no more than on Saturday.  You will concede the odd goal in PL football.  If that happens before we score 2 (and mostly we take our time about it), then games will look close.  The only disappointment for me is that we didn't bring on Fabregas earlier (or better at the start).  I think he only needs 30 mins to win this type of game, so why wait.

I think the standard, performance wise, I am using to compare our performances against would be that Everton game at home when I felt that we were sublime.

I feel like I haven't seen enough of those performances this season. I am not talking about the scoreline to be perfectly honest.. I am talking about the speed at which we moved the ball and the way we created chance after chance.

I haven't seen enough of that this year. I have seen a lot of games where we were good (certainly much better than the opposition) but not great. 

Certainly deserving of our place at the top through sheer consistency though. I am definitely not disputing that.

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7 hours ago, zaffo said:

Certainly a deliberate method Conte employs at times. What it does is it actually lulls the opposition onto the front foot and aids us with more space going forward, as long as we move the ball quickly.

For decades in the PL teams have played defensive football.  Now we have Conte and it is all about his personal genius.  Sam Allardici must be hugely jealous.

6 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

I feel like I haven't seen enough of those performances this season. I am not talking about the scoreline to be perfectly honest.. I am talking about the speed at which we moved the ball and the way we created chance after chance.

I think a lot of that is dependent on the scoreline.  Once you go 2 up, the oppo is forced to come at you and that gives you opportunities you don't have otherwise.
Still I think you are underestimating what we achieved against Stoke.  Against Everton we had 21 shots, of which 9 were on target.  Against Stoke the numbers were 20 & 6.  The 5-0 at home was domination, but so mostly was this 2-1 away.

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