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Michael Tucker

Chelsea 1 Swansea City 0

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3 hours ago, jones said:

You are aware this is the typical behaviour of a 10 year old?

If you have not noticed over the past couple of seasons, how Fabregas has been a weakness defensively when playing in "the two" - be it 3-4-3 or 4-2-3-1, then even for you that's a bit strange.

I have noticed a lot of people on hear who have argued Fabregas should not be picked week in week out despite the evidence of everyone's eyes that he should.  

Fabregas is simply one of 3 superb players we own, Hazard, Kante and Fabregas in not particular order.  Telling me I'm a 10 year old because you are still in denial...

1 hour ago, Martin1905 said:

We won the league with Fabregas playing as one of the two in Jose's 4231, he was the best midfielder in the league.  By an absolute mile. 

Quite.  Despite the handicap of playing with Matic.  He was our best defensive CM then too.

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17 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I have noticed a lot of people on hear who have argued Fabregas should not be picked week in week out despite the evidence of everyone's eyes that he should

 

I don't recall anyone saying that.

They've said he shouldn't play in a two man midfield and they're right , he shouldn't. 

He's a brilliant player , works hard for the team , should be imho the Captain and passes the football with laser guided precision but his little legs don't carry him around the park quick enough to close down or track runners , especially over ninety minutes , he's better at it than Bakayoko but that's hardly a stretch.

 

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1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

I don't recall anyone saying that.

They've said he shouldn't play in a two man midfield and they're right , he shouldn't. 

He's a brilliant player , works hard for the team , should be imho the Captain and passes the football with laser guided precision but his little legs don't carry him around the park quick enough to close down or track runners , especially over ninety minutes , he's better at it than Bakayoko but that's hardly a stretch.

 

He shouldn't play in a two man midfield when we're likely to be dominated by the other team (which isn't often). But he should start every match when fit and fresh.

For most matches - 3-4-3 with 6 defensive players + Fabregas, Hazard, Pedro/Willian, Morata

For midfield battles - 3-5-2 with 7 defensive players + Fabregas, Hazard, Morata

For the 3-5-2 ideally we'd have a number 8 that can score goals to partner Kanté and Fabregas, but that player doesn't exist at the moment.

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Just to clear something up , here's a handy definition .

Wing-back

The wing-back (or attacking full-back) are defenders with heavier emphasis on attack. The name is a portmanteau of "winger" and "full-back", indicating the greater emphasis on their responsibilities in attack.[30] They are usually employed as part of a 3–5–2 formation, and can therefore be considered part of the midfield when a team is attacking.[31] They may also be used in a 5–3–2 formation and therefore have a more defensive role.[32] The term "wing-back" itself is gradually falling out of use as there is less of a distinction with the full-back roles in the modern game, especially when used in a 4–3–3 or 4–2–3–1 formation.[30][33]

The wing-back role is one of the most physically demanding positions in modern football. Wing-backs are often more adventurous than traditional full-backs and are expected to provide width, especially in teams without wingers. A wing-back needs to be of exceptional stamina, be able to provide crosses upfield and then defend effectively against an opponent's attack down the flanks. A defensive midfielder is usually fielded to cover the advances of an opponent's wing-back.

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jones   
3 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

We won the league with Fabregas playing as one of the two in Jose's 4231, he was the best midfielder in the league.  By an absolute mile. 

He didn't play that much, certainly didn't start that many games last year but we relied on him massively in his limited time.  

He is a world class centre midfielder who's weaknesses are obvious but for some reason he gets criticised for them far more than others.  How much criticism does Kante get for not being able to pass the ball like Cesc or have his ability on the ball? He is what he is, and we should all be incredibly greatful for that but the stick he gets is insane.

He may be better suited to a 3 man midfield, in fact I would say he 100% is , and that is what we are all saying. It just appears some are happy with him being one of only two creative players out of 10. Others, like myself, think we would be much better off playing 433 if we are going to continue with such a defensive midfield.

I think you misunderstood my point. I am one of the biggest Fabregas fans here, but if you can't see that he has his weaknesses defensively then you are blind. I said 3-5-2 is a revelation for Fabregas as it allows him to focus on what he is best at, and not having to be as worried defensively as he is in a two man midfield. I also think his advanced role from deeper positions suits him better than the no 10 he played at times under Jose. Basically just saying that his current position is where I consider Fabregas to have most impact. That does not mean I don't acknowledge the impact he has had before.

Edit: And to your last point on having multiple creative players. I strongly disagree that you need a bunch of Fabregas players in a well-balanced side. When you play with two strikers and Fabregas, what you want is not someone just like Fabregas, you want someone who can create space and penetrate the opposition. Bakayoko suits that description, even if someone view him as a defensive player. Droy will probably argue he is a defender, or even a GK I guess. But even if Bakayoko is not perfect (yet at least) his ability to break forward and penetrate helps Fabregas to be more influential. Loftus-Cheek has the same characteristics, and that is why I see him returning next year to compete mainly with Bakayoko in that typical box to box role. Lampard would be the perfect option there. 

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jones   
2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I have noticed a lot of people on hear who have argued Fabregas should not be picked week in week out despite the evidence of everyone's eyes that he should.  

Fabregas is simply one of 3 superb players we own, Hazard, Kante and Fabregas in not particular order.  Telling me I'm a 10 year old because you are still in denial...

I am probably an even bigger fan of Fabregas than you. But even if he is magic, his defensive weaknesses can not be ignored. Unless you tend to look at things in a black or white perspective though. There are a couple in here who tend to do that ...

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42 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

The term "wing-back" itself is gradually falling out of use as there is less of a distinction with the full-back roles in the modern game, especially when used in a 4–3–3 or 4–2–3–1 formation.[30][33]

Probably the only part of that which has any relevance. 

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10 minutes ago, jones said:

I think you misunderstood my point. I am one of the biggest Fabregas fans here, but if you can't see that he has his weaknesses defensively then you are blind. I said 3-5-2 is a revelation for Fabregas as it allows him to focus on what he is best at, and not having to be as worried defensively as he is in a two man midfield. I also think his advanced role from deeper positions suits him better than the no 10 he played at times under Jose. Basically just saying that his current position is where I consider Fabregas to have most impact. That does not mean I don't acknowledge the impact he has had before.

Edit: And to your last point on having multiple creative players. I strongly disagree that you need a bunch of Fabregas players in a well-balanced side. When you play with two strikers and Fabregas, what you want is not someone just like Fabregas, you want someone who can create space and penetrate the opposition. Bakayoko suits that description, even if someone view him as a defensive player. Droy will probably argue he is a defender, or even a GK I guess. But even if Bakayoko is not perfect (yet at least) his ability to break forward and penetrate helps Fabregas to be more influential. Loftus-Cheek has the same characteristics, and that is why I see him returning next year to compete mainly with Bakayoko in that typical box to box role. Lampard would be the perfect option there. 

I don't disagree with playing him in a 3 man midfield. I disagree with playing  7 defensive players to accommodate him.

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10 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Probably the only part of that which has any relevance. 

What about the bit that says they can be considered part of the midfield ?

Isn't that a teensie bit relevant when someone is making a case against Conte for fielding a team of defenders.

3 - Centre halves

5- midfielders 

2- attackers.

 

 

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