• Current Donation Goals

Recommended Posts

First has anyone seen a full explanation of what VAR is supposed to be.  From the FA or PMGOB?  I haven't yet

From the Norwich thread, but it seems right to make a VAR thread:

11 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

There was this very silly part of me that was quite excited at the prospect of vars....a chance for all those dodgy decisions to be proved wrong and fairness to prevail. The very first game and we witness this. We are even more vulnerable to refs than ever.  

3 hours ago, Holymoly said:

They seem to be adopting the cricket practice in that they go with the original call unless it is overwhelmingly wrong.

Rugby on the other hand has the option. They can ask (for instance) try or no try, or they can phrase it as "is there any reason why I can't award the try?" Of course in the case of rugby the referee is miked up and we see and hear the thought process that goes on. Why football is so precious and demands that the referee's authority should not be "undermined" by listening in on the process is beyond me. If they were big enough to admit they didn't see or else they got it wrong they would get a lot more respect. As it is last night the cards were whipped out before any thought process occurred at all.

3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

But then VAR ... Perhaps I'm off with my understanding, but does this 'clear and obvious error' thing mean the video ref can see what is very obviously a mistake when given the benefit of a replay and multiple angles but still not offer a corrective position because it was a, *ahem*, reasonable, not obvious error to the human eye in real time? Because that is the rationale I have heard for Willian, and if that is true it is perhaps literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

 

Why did the FA introduce VAR?  And given a reason, what would that imply about the way it was used?  My thoughts:

FA/PMGOB concern Ref embarrassment Best decision everytime Deter ref bias

Intention

 

 

Avoid headlines about big errors, but avoid referees
being overruled frequently

 

Any thing contentious should be reviewed and corrected

 

 

Decision-making and rationale should be clear to viewers on TV and at game.
Ref errors should be highlighted, not hidden

 

Rules

 

 

5th ref watching, but only over-ruling big errors, and passing on minor or excusable mistakes

Any contentious decision reviewed, correct decision made irrespective of first decision by ref.      Appeals by teams allowed

 

Any contentious decision reviewed, correct decision made irrespective of first decision by ref.
Access to decision process for TV or match goers

Private between ref and 5th ref.  No explanations ever given.

 

 

Doesn't matter

 

 

 

Open discussion for TV viewers at least, method of signalling decision to match goers.  Ref and 5th official miked up for TV and matchgoers

 

Example Football only Rugby, cricket, American Football Rugby, cricket, American Football

 

So what does that tell us about why VAR has been introduced?
And worse - the only thing that deters blatant ref bias is that really big bad decisions get blown up in the press.  If VAR removes the worst, but allows dozens of smaller ones to creep through unmentioned (but apparently approved) then the risk of getting shamed as a bias ref is much much smaller.  This VAR leads to MORE ref bias.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ham said:

Yes but VAR should have fixed this. It didn't..... Or didn't want to. 

Didn't want to.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Refs only refer to VAR if they have doubt but most/all refs are too arrogant to admit to doubt = no VAR

VAR officials wont over rule a ref as it makes the refs look week.

Players will instead of pestering for a decision will now be pestering for a review

Fans wont know whether to cheer for a borderline goal in case it get ruled out a minute later

What as in the case of Willian last night he would have got another yellow equalling a red when it was clear the first yellow was not right? Where would VAR credibility be if the VAR people didn't correct the wrong first call?

What if a goal is scored at the other end whilst  a review is going on, too late to call it back.

It only works if play comes to a stop not if the ref misses it and play continues.

 

I can safely say I can't see the benefit, its still down to the incompetence or bias of a ref

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cannot have a state of the art system if you're still relying on the same useless berk  operating it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

First has anyone seen a full explanation of what VAR is supposed to be.  From the FA or PMGOB?  I haven't yet

From the Norwich thread, but it seems right to make a VAR thread:

 

Why did the FA introduce VAR?  And given a reason, what would that imply about the way it was used?  My thoughts:

FA/PMGOB concern Ref embarrassment Best decision everytime Deter ref bias

Intention

 

 

Avoid headlines about big errors, but avoid referees
being overruled frequently

 

Any thing contentious should be reviewed and corrected

 

 

Decision-making and rationale should be clear to viewers on TV and at game.
Ref errors should be highlighted, not hidden

 

Rules

 

 

5th ref watching, but only over-ruling big errors, and passing on minor or excusable mistakes

Any contentious decision reviewed, correct decision made irrespective of first decision by ref.      Appeals by teams allowed

 

Any contentious decision reviewed, correct decision made irrespective of first decision by ref.
Access to decision process for TV or match goers

Private between ref and 5th ref.  No explanations ever given.

 

 

Doesn't matter

 

 

 

Open discussion for TV viewers at least, method of signalling decision to match goers.  Ref and 5th official miked up for TV and matchgoers

 

Example Football only Rugby, cricket, American Football Rugby, cricket, American Football

 

So what does that tell us about why VAR has been introduced?
And worse - the only thing that deters blatant ref bias is that really big bad decisions get blown up in the press.  If VAR removes the worst, but allows dozens of smaller ones to creep through unmentioned (but apparently approved) then the risk of getting shamed as a bias ref is much much smaller.  This VAR leads to MORE ref bias.

 

 

Didn't want to.

 

As has been said in here more than once - simply make it 3 challenges per team allowable and have the replays shown to all. That would dramatically improve matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is well-established that yellow cards cannot be overturned. So if, last night, the VAR had stepped in and told the ref that he should have given us a pen, is it not the case that Willian's yellow could not have been rescinded?

I wonder whether the fact that the ref issued a yellow was a key factor in his stubbornness in not reviewing the incident. He gave the card instantly, indicating he was 100% certain William had dived, so he was not prepared to be proved wrong by video evidence.

I am still mystified by people who see a dive in that incident. I suppose it shows the depth of their hatred for all things Chelsea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should we not adopt the tennis system where you have so many challenges per match. The skipper or coach of the team decides if they want to challenge a decision, let's say that you get two challenges for each half. If your challenge proves correct you don't lose a challenge. This would take the decision away from the ref and stop the game being constantly stopped and players constantly drawing a a TV in the air. It won't stop muppet decisions like we have just seen but it may tidy things up a bit.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

It is well-established that yellow cards cannot be overturned

One of a bunch of idiocies in the current rule.  
Imagine one player shoves another and the ref can't decide on a yellow or a red, and calls for a VAR.  And that shows that very sneakily the pushed player had first grabbed the balls of the pushee, in a way that no referee could reasonably have seen.  What happens?  Nothing, just the yellow I guess.

1 minute ago, NoblyBobly said:

Should we not adopt the tennis system where you have so many challenges per match.

If the goal is fairness, that would be a good idea.  I'm pretty sure the goal is in fact to protect the reputation of referees and to hell with fairness.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way it would work and the only way it should ever be used is to have someone watching the game and relaying any mistakes to the ref as he makes them. The VAR should be able to step in at any point and tell the ref he got it wrong and change his decision. 

I'm against it full stop, I'd be even more against it if they start letting each team have a certain amount of referrals. 3 each would mean 6 times in a match and it would absolutely destroy the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now