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BlueWill   
On 23/04/2018 at 6:56 PM, Droy was my hero said:

Try the last two games.

It isn't just him though is it, it is Kante and another CM - oh no, it is Kante and a third CB.  Sounds to me like these CBs have it remarkably easy.

He didn't appear against Burnley so I suppose that isn't a net negative and against a rubbish Southampton first half he had time and space to open them up - he didn't. The much mailgned Haazrd put in a real shift against Burnley, not as eye catching as against Saints, but he worked hard and did not hide. Cesc ought to try that hard for a change.

3rd CB in HMF? They do not have it easy behind Cesc and I'm well aware he's not the only holder and I certainly do not agree with him playing there. He proves week in and week out that he's inacapable of reliably performing as a CB shield, even worse he can't get forward to where his skillset belongs, leaving Kante to gallop forward away from where his own skillset belongs. I know you rate Cesc very highly whereas I think he's had his day and is of limited use. You claimed before the Barca home leg that Cesc (and Pedro (gasp)) are world class. They are not and certainly would not get into barca's 11.

Its a sorry state of affairs that we frequently start him and in the wrong position.

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11 hours ago, BlueWill said:

Its a sorry state of affairs that we frequently start him and in the wrong position.

I have no issue with Cesc at all. I have no issue with him playing in a two man midfield. 

The issue is how he is deployed there and to criticise him is just absurd. He's being asked to be something he is not. 

I don't see much criticism for Kante for not being able to do what Cesc does. Or for Courtois for not scoring enough goals.

You can't blame the player when he is what he is and is trying to do a job that is just not his to do. As soon as Conte realised Bakayoko wasn't up to it we should have dropped a centre back and played to our player's strengths. Instead the manager has been unbelievably stubborn, or just incredibly naive, and it has cost us big time this season.

Cesc is one of our best players.  There is absolutely no question about it. Judging him in this team, with the way we play is ridiculously unfair. 

How do people think De Bruyne or Ericksen would fair playing the role Cesc is asked to play?

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39 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I have no issue with Cesc at all. I have no issue with him playing in a two man midfield. 

The issue is how he is deployed there and to criticise him is just absurd. He's being asked to be something he is not. 

I don't see much criticism for Kante for not being able to do what Cesc does. Or for Courtois for not scoring enough goals.

You can't blame the player when he is what he is and is trying to do a job that is just not his to do. As soon as Conte realised Bakayoko wasn't up to it we should have dropped a centre back and played to our player's strengths. Instead the manager has been unbelievably stubborn, or just incredibly naive, and it has cost us big time this season.

Cesc is one of our best players.  There is absolutely no question about it. Judging him in this team, with the way we play is ridiculously unfair. 

How do people think De Bruyne or Ericksen would fair playing the role Cesc is asked to play?

So , if Conte's favoured formation in Italy was 4-2-4 , and given the fact that when we played 4-4-2 last season we got beaten twice in a row before switching formation and winning fourteen straight games , equalling the Premier League record in the process , why do you think he's sticking to three centre halves?

Is he stupid do you think ?

or is he trying to get the best out of a flawed bunch of players ?

I agree that we are not utilising Cesc to the best of his abilities , I think everyone agrees on that score , but I think Conte believes that he's doing the best with what he's been dealt , which is the mark of his professional career so far , tailoring the players at his disposal to try and win more games than he loses  and he probably knows more than anyone that there is a degree of balance where you have to lose something to gain another thing .

I suppose he could always drop a centre half and play Bakayoko instead , (cue hysteria ), or maybe drop a centre half and play Drinkwater instead ,(cue more  hysteria) or maybe even , drop a centre half and play Ross Barkley instead , (cue St Johns Ambulance) ?

But I expect he thinks that in doing that he'll miss the attacking threat our wing backs offer and would limit the efficiency of our desperately poor centre halves who appear to require three of them to stop leaking goals left right and centre given the lack of protection we offer them by way of a shield in midfield . 

Maybe De Bruyne and Erickson would fair playing better than Cesc if we had the option of playing Fernandinho or Dier and Dembele , but I thought you'd only complain we had too many defensive players on the pitch if he did that.

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37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

So , if Conte's favoured formation in Italy was 4-2-4 , and given the fact that when we played 4-4-2 last season we got beaten twice in a row before switching formation and winning fourteen straight games , equalling the Premier League record in the process , why do you think he's sticking to three centre halves?

Because he plays 532, has done for a long time. Juventus played this way, Italy played this way, we have played almost entirely this way. It's what he does.

37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Is he stupid do you think ?

or is he trying to get the best out of a flawed bunch of players ?

I agree that we are not utilising Cesc to the best of his abilities , I think everyone agrees on that score , but I think Conte believes that he's doing the best with what he's been dealt , which is the mark of his professional career so far , tailoring the players at his disposal to try and win more games than he loses  and he probably knows more than anyone that there is a degree of balance where you have to lose something to gain another thing .

I suppose he could always drop a centre half and play Bakayoko instead , (cue hysteria ), or maybe drop a centre half and play Drinkwater instead ,(cue more  hysteria) or maybe even , drop a centre half and play Ross Barkley instead , (cue St Johns Ambulance) ?

You don't have to play a three man midfield though. Just push further up the pitch and engage opponents in a game of football rather than waiting for them to make mistakes.

We could of course drop a centre half and play a three man midfield. It might have been worth a go during the period when we were truly appaling. I doubt too many people would have moaned if he had actually tried something to  change that run of form, even if it meant playing the players you mention. 

We could have played Mikel, Matic, Chalobah or at a push Ake or Luiz.

37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

But I expect he thinks that in doing that he'll miss the attacking threat our wing backs offer and would limit the efficiency of our desperately poor centre halves who appear to require three of them to stop leaking goals left right and centre given the lack of protection we offer them by way of a shield in midfield . 

Our wing backs are less attacking that most other teams full backs so I highly doubt that would be a problem. Maybe Conte should coach these desperately poor centre halfs better, or find a way to play that we dont sit so deep when we have such desperately poor centre halfs and allow ourselves to be put under pressure because we play so deep?

Maybe it's the tactics and not the players?

37 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Maybe De Bruyne and Erickson would fair playing better than Cesc if we had the option of playing Fernandinho or Dier and Dembele , but I thought you'd only complain we had too many defensive players on the pitch if he did that.

Just imagine if we had someone like Kante to play alongside Fabregas. 

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37 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Because he plays 532, has done for a long time. Juventus played this way, Italy played this way, we have played almost entirely this way. It's what he does.

No , he plays 3-5-2 here and at previous clubs he's played 4-2-4 and 3-5-2 , maybe he can't do that here because the board totally ignored his advice regarding the players he wanted.

You don't have to play a three man midfield though. Just push further up the pitch and engage opponents in a game of football rather than waiting for them to make mistakes.

I agree to some point , however , when you do this with a two man midfield of Kante and Fabregas , one is off fighting fires and the other one would lose a foot race to Stephen Hawking and cannot cover the ground properly 

We could of course drop a centre half and play a three man midfield. It might have been worth a go during the period when we were truly appaling. I doubt too many people would have moaned if he had actually tried something to  change that run of form, even if it meant playing the players you mention. 

Again, its not change for changes sake we need , we do not have the players , Bakayoko , Drinkwater and Barkley , according to everyone are rubbish so whats a man to do?

We could have played Mikel, Matic, Chalobah or at a push Ake or Luiz.

Lols , yes I suppose he could , maybe he could have played Lampard or Terry and Drogba, he must have drummed them all out of the side as well.

Our wing backs are less attacking that most other teams full backs so I highly doubt that would be a problem. Maybe Conte should coach these desperately poor centre halfs better, or find a way to play that we dont sit so deep when we have such desperately poor centre halfs and allow ourselves to be put under pressure because we play so deep?

Our wing backs are also less athletic than other teams full backs , Moses can't get past anyone and Alonso is a fine player but you could set a jelly in the time it takes him to get from one end of the pitch to the other.

Maybe it's the tactics and not the players?

Its really the tactics of not being left wide open all the time.

Just imagine if we had someone like Kante to play alongside Fabregas. 

Kante is not essentially the player we need to partner someone as slow as Fabregas , Kante is rocketing around the pitch hunting down the ball and breaking up play , the problems occur when the ball is moved away faster than both he and definitely Fabregas cannot compete with.

 

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2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

So , if Conte's favoured formation in Italy was 4-2-4 , and given the fact that when we played 4-4-2 last season we got beaten twice in a row before switching formation and winning fourteen straight games , equalling the Premier League record in the process , why do you think he's sticking to three centre halves?

Is he stupid do you think ?

or is he trying to get the best out of a flawed bunch of players ?

Last season - he was stupid.  We got beaten playing 8-1-1 with 4 defenders, 2 CMs, 3AMs and a CF.

The REAL formation change was from 8-1-1 to 3-4-2-1, and the effective change was from everyone dropping back into our penalty area irrespective of where the opponents were to only CBs being allowed in our box unless you are tracking an oppo player.

Yes, fixing that allowed top class players to go on and win the PL again.  But it wasn't 343 over 442 (or actually 424), it was 8-1-1 changing to 3 only in our box.  Kind of like a driving instructor realising he has to tell Stirling Moss to take off the handbrake when moving off.

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