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Martin1905

Official: Chelsea Part Ways With Antonio Conte

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3 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

All the players I mentioned Conte wanting had the player, agent or players club confirm our interest, including direct quotes. . 

I am pained by how DWMH this sounds because I do genuinely dislike GIFs (Ham, my old laptop just can't deal with that much to load on the page) but this really is the definition of starting out with nonsense facts to justify nonsense positions. None of those players, agents or clubs 'confirmed' anything of any genuine significance, and the frustrating thing is I know that you know this, because I've seen you join in with the chastising of posters who believe everything they read in the transfer rumour columns. 

What happened to the idea, your idea I think it is fair to say, that Conte would be walking post-haste if he didn't get the players he wanted? 

Conte got what a manager at Chelsea gets, even more really by a fair few barometers. Accept it.

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Ham   
1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

I am pained by how DWMH this sounds because I do genuinely dislike GIFs (Ham, my old laptop just can't deal with that much to load on the page) but this really is the definition of starting out with nonsense facts to justify nonsense positions. None of those players, agents or clubs 'confirmed' anything of any genuine significance, and the frustrating thing is I know that you know this, because I've seen you join in with the chastising of posters who believe everything they read in the transfer rumour columns. 

What happened to the idea, your idea I think it is fair to say, that Conte would be walking post-haste if he didn't get the players he wanted? 

Conte got what a manager at Chelsea gets, even more really by a fair few barometers. Accept it.

No GIFs 😊

Truce.

I pretty much agree.

 

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All these excuses for Conte isn't exactly relevant at the moment...

In terms of feasibility of changing, the club has to consider all the factors right now. I feel that, overall, we aren't in a good position to initiate change. We are a team out of the UCL, with a lot of uncertainty surrounding ownership as well as future plans, with a manager at the helm who doesn't seem entirely happy with the club, or players who seem too happy at the club either.

Maybe we can work this one out, get the club back into the top 4, see if the situation changes with Roman Abramovich, and then next year give this decision some further thought.

I wouldn't mind losing Conte NOW if we could get the right guy in and had money to invest into rebuilding. I'm not saying that we can't/wont do that yet - but at the moment its not looking like that's going to happen and I think its actually going to do a lot more harm to keep up with this uncertainty.

If we keep Conte, and you all are right about the players who wont get behind him - eg. Cahill, Hazard, Courtois or Willian - then its up to the club to straighten out these guys. Even Pep got Yaya to settle down in the interest of the team, and certainly Mourinho has stood up to the crap players over at United. A lot can be accomplished if the club stands WITH the manager in situations like these.

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Ham   
22 minutes ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

All these excuses for Conte isn't exactly relevant at the moment...

In terms of feasibility of changing, the club has to consider all the factors right now. I feel that, overall, we aren't in a good position to initiate change. We are a team out of the UCL, with a lot of uncertainty surrounding ownership as well as future plans, with a manager at the helm who doesn't seem entirely happy with the club, or players who seem too happy at the club either.

Maybe we can work this one out, get the club back into the top 4, see if the situation changes with Roman Abramovich, and then next year give this decision some further thought.

I wouldn't mind losing Conte NOW if we could get the right guy in and had money to invest into rebuilding. I'm not saying that we can't/wont do that yet - but at the moment its not looking like that's going to happen and I think its actually going to do a lot more harm to keep up with this uncertainty.

If we keep Conte, and you all are right about the players who wont get behind him - eg. Cahill, Hazard, Courtois or Willian - then its up to the club to straighten out these guys. Even Pep got Yaya to settle down in the interest of the team, and certainly Mourinho has stood up to the crap players over at United. A lot can be accomplished if the club stands WITH the manager in situations like these.

It would be much cheaper to replace Conte than half of our first team. Easy choice for me. 

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29 minutes ago, Ham said:

It would be much cheaper to replace Conte than half of our first team. Easy choice for me. 

If we do lose some of the first team stars and some of those on loan too ( because they don't trust/like Conte ) at least we should have enough money to buy a new set of players. Whether these players will be any good, well, I'm not going to hold my breath.

I'll be happy with a group of players who can operate as a team.

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7 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

You are absolutely spot on. The only thing I would add is that it's debatable that Conte did everything he could to get rid of Matic. It's obvious that after less than a year Matic no longer wanted to play for him but that doesn't mean Conte tried to get rid of him.

He did however alsobpush out Mikel, Ivanovic and Terry plus Hazrad, Willian and Courtois will all leave if he stays. Mikel has even admitted he was pushed out . 

Of course this will go round in circles, some are just blind to the apparent truth.

Yes I may have exaggerated to emphasise my point. Yes, there shouldn't be a may in the previous sentence. I exaggerated. 

Maybe Matic (and seemingly Willian) wanted/wants to play for José more than they wanted/want to play for Conte. They weren't/aren't pushed put although Willian played waaaaay too little over the course of the season. 

Agree on Mikel, Ivan and JT. Courtois will leave no matter what. And I won't shed a tear. 

Hearing Cech may have to accept being number two over at Arsenal. Maybe we could try and get him back as our number two, with a new GK (young and talented - 25-28 yo) as our GK1? Then let one of the academy goalies be GK3. Not overly impressed with Caballero to be honest. Eduardo seem to be a perfectly good waste of a foreign spot. 

 

4 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

All these excuses for Conte isn't exactly relevant at the moment...

In terms of feasibility of changing, the club has to consider all the factors right now. I feel that, overall, we aren't in a good position to initiate change. We are a team out of the UCL, with a lot of uncertainty surrounding ownership as well as future plans, with a manager at the helm who doesn't seem entirely happy with the club, or players who seem too happy at the club either.

Maybe we can work this one out, get the club back into the top 4, see if the situation changes with Roman Abramovich, and then next year give this decision some further thought.

I wouldn't mind losing Conte NOW if we could get the right guy in and had money to invest into rebuilding. I'm not saying that we can't/wont do that yet - but at the moment its not looking like that's going to happen and I think its actually going to do a lot more harm to keep up with this uncertainty.

If we keep Conte, and you all are right about the players who wont get behind him - eg. Cahill, Hazard, Courtois or Willian - then its up to the club to straighten out these guys. Even Pep got Yaya to settle down in the interest of the team, and certainly Mourinho has stood up to the crap players over at United. A lot can be accomplished if the club stands WITH the manager in situations like these.

Some very interesting points you bring up. Agree there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the club. The owner, new Technical Director/DoF, manager up in the air, key players not committing fully, other key players ageing, small squad that lacks a coherent composition. The new stadium is now also on hold and I'd bet a lot of money on that never happening now. 

Where do we go from here?

 

9 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

... 

By the way mate, having read my post back I recognise it may come off a bit strong. It wasn't meant as anyhing personal - just trying to argue (strongly) why I'm right and you're wrong lol :happy: As it should be I suppose. But I recognise you have history with Conte and are basing your views on a vastly diferent consideration set than most of us. 

At the end of the day we are all Chelsea fans and just want what (we think) is best for the club. 

Whatever happens (Conte staying or going), I do not think we will see the club spending £150-200m net over the next two windows. So unfortunately I'm not super excited of our prospects over the coming 3 years. Unless we all of a sudden see top class players emerging from the academy. If we do not have the top dollars to spend, I'd rather we keep/kept players like Bertrand, Aké, Loftus-Cheek, Chalobah etc etc (examples) as squad players with the hope that one of them will break through and become an important forst team member. Then go after the real top talents. Buy one of them each window. A £75-120m player. Buy them in the right age category - 20-25 - and let them grow into a team together with some older squad players and the top talents from the academy. 

I honestly think that's the way forward for us. Enough of the small spending here and there. Spend big on players that make a difference. 

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12 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Some very interesting points you bring up. Agree there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding the club. The owner, new Technical Director/DoF, manager up in the air, key players not committing fully, other key players ageing, small squad that lacks a coherent composition. The new stadium is now also on hold and I'd bet a lot of money on that never happening now. 

Right now I'd argue that Emenalo's replacement is more important than Conte's.  We have had squad composition a complete nightmare over the past 12 months as the manager has got too much of what he wanted, and too little of what the next 2 or 3 managers need.

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18 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Not overly impressed with Caballero to be honest.

And yet he and the Man U GK2, Romero, seem to be the main 2 keepers for Argentina.  Their GK3 is 31 without a cap.  
Funny world.  

Caballero, Christensen, Moses, Omeruo (yes him) and Giroud are at the WC.
Alonso, Fabregas, Morata aren't.  

 

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35 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Right now I'd argue that Emenalo's replacement is more important than Conte's.  We have had squad composition a complete nightmare over the past 12 months as the manager has got too much of what he wanted, and too little of what the next 2 or 3 managers need.

And that's even more supportive of how much its going to take to get this club back to the post-Mourinho days when basically all the managers could walk in on a squad that could function, and be successful as well, under just about any manager with half of a brain. 

It wasn't until 2011-2012  when the likes of Malouda, Lampard, Drogs, Ballack, Essien, Ashley Cole, and Petr Cech had started to reach the end of their runs at this club... At the moment, what is the new manager going to walk in on? 

This new guy is basically going to be walking in on a group of players who are designed to sit deep and I can't think of many managers out there who would necessarily line up like that. I remember watching Conte's Italy side in the Euro's and expressing just how little I was expecting of him in terms of attacking impetus. 

Sarri, Blanc and most other top managers are going to have to invest heavily in sorting out this squad and balancing it to their requirements. Attackers in today's market are very, very expensive. Can the club, honestly, afford that sort of investment right now? I'm not so sure.

If we revert to a back 4, can Moses still be our RB? Can Alonso play the LB role well? Is Azpili going to have a place at RB? Can we seriously approach the season with only 3 forwards in Hazard, Pedro and Willian? Having seen Drinkwater and Bakayoko this year, are we really equipped to head into the season playing with 3 midfielders at all times? And we also definitely need a striker.

IMO, we will need a RB, a LB, a CM or 2, 2 forwards and a striker. Thats arguably 300-400million pounds to change. Can the club seriously cope with that right now? I highly doubt it.

At the moment, it looks like we could end up with a new guy, with the wrong squad, no support from the boardroom, no financial backing to change, and its going to be (potentially) a huge disaster.

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The Sun has AVB to Real Madrid - no kidding.

 

7 minutes ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

It wasn't until 2011-2012  when the likes of Malouda, Lampard, Drogs, Ballack, Essien, Ashley Cole, and Petr Cech had started to reach the end of their runs at this club... At the moment, what is the new manager going to walk in on? 

Yes - but 2011 was the start of the rebuild, and when a whole host of young players started to arrive.  The problem was addressed just as soon as it had arisen.

By 2013/14 the squad was ready to win stuff and did.  It has been shamelessly ripped apart by the manager over the past 2 years.

Edited by Droy was my hero

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