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Michael Tucker

Chelsea 0 Lyon 0 (Chelsea win 5-4 on penalties)

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22 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Well obvs I'm not telling you it won't work you coz that would be silly  ( and this is the first preseason game I've seen). We surely have to give 4-3-3 a good crack but from what I saw on Sunday, we might need a plan B....something Conte didn't have. Maybe with Christenson in a back four with Cahill or Rudy things might look better.  

We must take into account how little football Luiz has played but he looked a bit like a fish out of water in that formation. Experiment now is what I'm suggesting. 

Given how short our pre-season has been, and with a new coach wanting to implement a new style, you believe trying out a Plan B tonight, before anyone has gotten used to Plan A, is the way to go? I coached in a different sport, but we made sure the players were well drilled in 'Plan A' before trying out variations.

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7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'm fully expecting an " Oh ! Conte was right after all " to collectively occur at some point this season.

About the same time as Arsenal fans start holding up "Wenger Back" banners!

The point I would personally make about Sarri is that I wasn't and am still not keen on his appointment, I'm not that keen on the man, I'm not that impressed with his CV and I don't know if he can bring home the bacon at this club. He has to win me over and if he does a worse job than Conte, well, he hasn't the excuse that he didn't know what he was coming in to. 

Conte's formation mistake was dropping/losing Luiz and persisting with a back three containing a promising but nevertheless inexperienced 20 year old in the crucial central role. When it fell apart  he just stuck with it putting more square pegs in round holes. I think he tried a back four just once last season and it went rather well as I recall. I am always surprised at how coaches (not just ours) persist with stuff when it clearly isn't working. Look at what happened in season one when he eventually tweaked it. 

 

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51 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

I'd even go back to the 80s and 90s and try him in a sweeper type role behind a back four. I've never seen us look so flat at the back as we did on Sunday. In a sweeper role the back four would push further up field for Luis to distribute longer balls. The tippytappy thing at the back is something we are not good at but try at every opportunity. City on the other hand often played the ball long and medium long ball with devastating effect.  We were lucky not to lose that game by four goals.

I don't think you can get away with a withdrawn sweeper without the ball anymore - you just get caught out with no offside line.  And it leaves you vulnerable with the ball if you ever lose it.  
I think tippy tappy at the back will get better with training and against much weaker teams than City.  But key has always been having a threat up front.  When lower half teams can press Chelsea because they know the out ball isn't an option, then back tippy tappy is just inviting trouble.  Solving the Morata problem is the main issue.

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1 minute ago, Bob Singleton said:

Given how short our pre-season has been, and with a new coach wanting to implement a new style, you believe trying out a Plan B tonight, before anyone has gotten used to Plan A, is the way to go? I coached in a different sport, but we made sure the players were well drilled in 'Plan A' before trying out variations.

True but is Weds team going to be the one that starts at the weekend anyway? Who are we going to be drilling?

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2 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I don't think you can get away with a withdrawn sweeper without the ball anymore - you just get caught out with no offside line.  And it leaves you vulnerable with the ball if you ever lose it.  
I think tippy tappy at the back will get better with training and against much weaker teams than City.  But key has always been having a threat up front.  When lower half teams can press Chelsea because they know the out ball isn't an option, then back tippy tappy is just inviting trouble.  Solving the Morata problem is the main issue.

Absolutely. I'm just making casual conversation on formation really.  And if we keep Morata and use him he surely can't play up there on his own? It would have to be with a partner of some sort if we are to learn anything from last season.

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2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Usually the last pre-season game is really an U23 team game, not a full first team game.
Are we sure this is a full first team game?

Needs to be if we are serious about winning the ICC,

Arsenal fans on social media are already celebrating  and planning their bus parade down Upper Street.

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xCELERYx   
9 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Well obvs I'm not telling you it won't work you coz that would be silly  ( and this is the first preseason game I've seen). We surely have to give 4-3-3 a good crack but from what I saw on Sunday, we might need a plan B....something Conte didn't have. Maybe with Christenson in a back four with Cahill or Rudy things might look better.  

We must take into account how little football Luiz has played but he looked a bit like a fish out of water in that formation. Experiment now is what I'm suggesting. 

Don't hold your breath on Sarri changing things. He has his methods and will stick exactly to that. Was one of the criticisms ADL had with Sarri - a unwillingness to change things.

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xCELERYx   
9 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

About the same time as Arsenal fans start holding up "Wenger Back" banners!

The point I would personally make about Sarri is that I wasn't and am still not keen on his appointment, I'm not that keen on the man, I'm not that impressed with his CV and I don't know if he can bring home the bacon at this club. He has to win me over and if he does a worse job than Conte, well, he hasn't the excuse that he didn't know what he was coming in to. 

Conte's formation mistake was dropping/losing Luiz and persisting with a back three containing a promising but nevertheless inexperienced 20 year old in the crucial central role. When it fell apart  he just stuck with it putting more square pegs in round holes. I think he tried a back four just once last season and it went rather well as I recall. I am always surprised at how coaches (not just ours) persist with stuff when it clearly isn't working. Look at what happened in season one when he eventually tweaked it. 

 

We've got more square pegs in round holes utilising a back four system than we did in a back three - particularly from a defensive standpoint. 

Two CB's who are adventurous and positionally ill-disciplined, who have both played their best football in a back three (Rudiger and Luiz). A young CB who isn't physically imposing enough and still tentative when it comes to reading the game quickly (Christensen). An aging traditional CB who is strong in the air, physical but has lot a little pace and isn't fancy - although still competent on the ball (Cahill) - arguably the best option we have. Not a single combination that instils confidence and a solid foundation. Arguably, Cahill becomes our best option. 

Then we have two players (Alonso and Emerson) who have played their best football in the more advanced WB position. Which suited their more attack natured games. In deeper fullback roles, Alonso doesn't have the pace to get forward and back - nor the extra protection in behind. While Emerson has looked a little shaky still defensively as he continues to adjust to playing regularly again. Worth noting Alonso would also be moved from fullback to midfield at Fiorentina when they changed to a back four from a three. 

Right back is about the only solid position we have - and that largely is because Azpilicueta is moving back out to fullback. Even with that, there's a good chance his impact drops in comparison to the influence he had in a back three - he was arguably our best and most consistent CB prior. This leaves Zappacosta who is a sieve when it comes to 1vs1 defending - who would also at times end up playing in midfield for Torino I might add. Then there's potentially Moses left. Although more likely he ends up as AM depth again than our go to RB option. 

Good chance we ship a lot of goals this season and look vulnerable defensively more than we have in the past. One can critise Conte and his three at the back all they like, but it at least utilised the strengths of our defenders and did a better job of negating their limitations. It's difficult to see a back four doing any of this. 

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45 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

Don't hold your breath on Sarri changing things. He has his methods and will stick exactly to that. Was one of the criticisms ADL had with Sarri - a unwillingness to change things.

I really doubt ADL had any criticisms about Sarri until he was losing him.  Fantastic success on an average budget.  

22 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

We've got more square pegs in round holes utilising a back four system than we did in a back three - particularly from a defensive standpoint. 

No - we just have too many pegs for a back 4, 5 or 6, and not enough pegs for a front 3.  Thankyou Conte - 4 defenders out of Serie A, Morata and no AMs from anywhere.

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45 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

Don't hold your breath on Sarri changing things. He has his methods and will stick exactly to that. Was one of the criticisms ADL had with Sarri - a unwillingness to change things.

I really doubt ADL had any criticisms about Sarri until he was losing him.  Fantastic success on an average budget.  

22 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

We've got more square pegs in round holes utilising a back four system than we did in a back three - particularly from a defensive standpoint. 

No - we just have too many pegs for a back 4, 5 or 6, and not enough pegs for a front 3.  Thankyou Conte - 4 defenders out of Serie A, Morata and no AMs from anywhere.

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