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Kezza

Kante and Jorginho - The Conundrum

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Kezza   
3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

I saw some people saying Kante had a poor game against Newcastle. Given his "strengths" are nipping opposition attacks in the bud and winning the ball back, he was hardly playing to his "strengths" against a side who had barely 20% possession!

Like Zoowraa, I don't see any conundrum at all. Both need to play. Kante just needs to adapt to a slightly different role. The real conundrums are regarding Kovacic or Barkley and Morata or Giroud. In an open game you would want the former of each pairing, in a game like against Newcastle, we would probably have been better off starting with the latter of each pairing. However, who knew (given their recent home record in games against us) that Newcastle would be quite so defensive?

It's not because Newcastle was defensive. It's more likely that it was because we were so aggressive and we kept possession so well. I don't believe it's a coincidence we have high possession against Arsenal and Newcastle.

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paulw66   
8 minutes ago, Kezza said:

Which is why I'm saying. If opponents continue to have 20% possession only we can play Luiz all year long. 

On Jorginho he's absolutely critical now in this system. The number of passes we clocked through him is incredible. While I don't remember City playing like Sarri, I'm surprised Gundogan has the record for most passes to date.

I do worry slightly if Jorginho is unavailable for a prolonged period. Presume Cesc takes over? 

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Kezza   
5 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

I do worry slightly if Jorginho is unavailable for a prolonged period. Presume Cesc takes over? 

I think it will be Kante. Jorginho role is not all about passing. It's also about quick thinking when under pressure. To keep the ball or to quickly lay it off to a nearby player. Kante can do this while I don't think Cesc has this speed of thought.

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1 hour ago, Kezza said:

I think it will be Kante. Jorginho role is not all about passing. It's also about quick thinking when under pressure. To keep the ball or to quickly lay it off to a nearby player. Kante can do this while I don't think Cesc has this speed of thought.

Agreed it’s more likely to be Kante or Kovacic, but a part of me thinks Ampadu could do a lot worse than studying re-runs of Jorginho 20 or 30 times after every game.

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2 hours ago, Kezza said:

It's not because Newcastle was defensive. It's more likely that it was because we were so aggressive and we kept possession so well. I don't believe it's a coincidence we have high possession against Arsenal and Newcastle.

Arsenal didn't sit back like Newcastle did. Yes, we were aggressive on Sunday, but you can't deny Newcastle went into the game with a very defensive game plan. To say they played 5-4-1 suggests a demarcation between the defence and midfield. In reality it was 9-0-1 with the defence split into two banks.

 

45 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

Agreed it’s more likely to be Kante or Kovacic, but a part of me thinks Ampadu could do a lot worse than studying re-runs of Jorginho 20 or 30 times after every game.

Ampadu has said in interviews that, although he has played in midfield, he sees himself as a defender first and foremost and prefers to play in defence. Of course it's possible a manager could change his mind, but...

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3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Arsenal didn't sit back like Newcastle did. Yes, we were aggressive on Sunday, but you can't deny Newcastle went into the game with a very defensive game plan. To say they played 5-4-1 suggests a demarcation between the defence and midfield. In reality it was 9-0-1 with the defence split into two banks.

 

Ampadu has said in interviews that, although he has played in midfield, he sees himself as a defender first and foremost and prefers to play in defence. Of course it's possible a manager could change his mind, but...

Like him as a player. Really hope he gets some good opportunities in the LC, EL and FA Cup this year.

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Kezza   

For the life of me I can't understand why Kante is playing as a striker at times. I know he's good and can adapt at anything and everything and can be everywhere and anywhere. But for the love of God he is not one you want at the end of precious chances. Why is it not possible to have Barkley or Kovacic in that advance position? I reckon its because Kante can be used to close down opposition in their own box and midway from centre circle to the box. But we know he is largely ineffective up front. The chance where he skied the shot he probably thought that he was clearing the ball!

Edited by Kezza

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I'd like to see a 3 of Fabregas - Kante - Kovacic/Barkley/Loftus-Cheek given a try tbh.

The Kovacic-Jorginho-Kante midfield retains too much meaningless possession against minnow teams. Like Giroud said post match, time for some versatility in our approach.

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6 minutes ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

I'd like to see a 3 of Fabregas - Kante - Kovacic/Barkley/Loftus-Cheek given a try tbh.

The Kovacic-Jorginho-Kante midfield retains too much meaningless possession against minnow teams. Like Giroud said post match, time for some versatility in our approach.

Can't really see how switching  Jorghino for Fabregas will change much.

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18 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Can't really see how switching  Jorghino for Fabregas will change much.

Kante would be switching into Jorginho's position. 

Fabregas would be in a more advanced position and he's a lot more incisive in his passing anyway. I'd advocate moving Jorginho further forward but I think he would struggle a bit in a more advanced role.

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