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Kezza

Kante and Jorginho - The Conundrum

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4 minutes ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

Kante would be switching into Jorginho's position. 

Fabregas would be in a more advanced position and he's a lot more incisive in his passing anyway. I'd advocate moving Jorginho further forward but I think he would struggle a bit in a more advanced role.

Ok, something we are not going to agree on at all then. 

I'm pretty sure Sarri will continue to she Jorginho the way he has, almost certain of it to be fair. The 6 wins and one draw this season, along with being the second highest scorers in the league is probably enough to justify it at this point.

I'd love to see Fabregas in the same side as Jorginho.

I'd hate to see Kante try and play Jorginhos role.

 

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There's absolutely no point debating it , we may as well be debating changing from blue shirts to red ones , Sarri will always play Jorginho , he's paramount to what he's trying to achieve and we will always look like we did against West Ham when the players don't do what the manager wants us to do , there'll be no "lumping it up to a big lad up front"  they'll be "Sarriball" or nothing . 

It's no good having a "philosophy" and then throwing it out the moment you have a poor performance , Sarri will be working hard behind the scenes to get the players to learn what he wants and how he wants them to play and should something happen to Jorginho then somebody else will be made to play exactly that role in the side. 

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Kezza   

So now the conundrum is really starting to present itself and is becoming real.

Jorginho is crucial and central to Sarri system. His quick thinking keep the ball short passing is unmatched by any other players in the squad currently I feel. Most would lose composure or make a wrong pass when pressed. Jorginho rarely lose the ball or make a poorly weighted pass even when pressed. I feel Kante can withstand pressure but just lack the creativity and distribution from that anchoring position perhaps. The most viable solution is have Kante just ahead of Jorginho and have Fabregas in the advance position. Only thing is Fabregas can't press up front as much as Kante. But is certainly more creative and is a goal threat.

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xCELERYx   

The biggest change Sarri can make is simply adjusting the roles of each of the three in midfield. Jorginho can be given more freedom to push forward than he's currently getting. Kante can be given less freedom going forward and can be more someone who can float deeper and mop up/win the ball back quickly once sides get possession in the middle. This would also provide the midfield with a better shield in front and would also massively help the lack of leg speed on the left if pushed to LCM. Kovacic can then play the more attacking of the three, something he did while at Inter. 

At present Sarri isn't really getting the best out of our midfield options besides Jorginho. Ironically, something like how Conte setup Juve's midfield three between Pirlo, Marchisio, Pogba and Vidal would strike more of a balance. It's going to be interesting to see what's done, because I can't see this continuing on as is all season. 

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16 hours ago, Kezza said:

So now the conundrum is really starting to present itself and is becoming real.

If Kanté was performing, there would be no conundrum. Kanté isn't even suitable to play in Jorginho's role. 

Kanté needs to learn to play in a three man CM instead of a two. 

 

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16 hours ago, Kezza said:

So now the conundrum is really starting to present itself and is becoming real.

Jorginho is crucial and central to Sarri system. His quick thinking keep the ball short passing is unmatched by any other players in the squad currently I feel. Most would lose composure or make a wrong pass when pressed. Jorginho rarely lose the ball or make a poorly weighted pass even when pressed. I feel Kante can withstand pressure but just lack the creativity and distribution from that anchoring position perhaps. The most viable solution is have Kante just ahead of Jorginho and have Fabregas in the advance position. Only thing is Fabregas can't press up front as much as Kante. But is certainly more creative and is a goal threat.

I think a little perspective is needed, and this isn't aimed at you.

We've played 7 games and won 6, dominating pretty much every game, scoring plenty of goals and played some amazing football at times. The one game we didn't win was away to West Ham. Not an easy place for us, never has been.

Kovacic didn't play much last season and is at a new club, in a new league. He's only started a few games. Kante is coming off the back of a very long season and is having to adapt to a new role. Jorginho, although he is splitting opinion at the moment, for me has been absolute class and is so key to how we play I can't get my head around anyone wanting to change his role at all.

One thing we clearly lack in midfield is goals, not something that is easily changed, especially with our current group of players. 

We need to remember that Sarri has only been here a couple of months and took over the most defensive side I have ever seen. It was never going to be easy but 6 wins out of 7 and still unbeaten is a better start than probably anyone would have hoped for. 

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1 hour ago, Martin1905 said:

I think a little perspective is needed, and this isn't aimed at you.

We've played 7 games and won 6, dominating pretty much every game, scoring plenty of goals and played some amazing football at times. The one game we didn't win was away to West Ham. Not an easy place for us, never has been.

Still think the WHU away is one of our better performances.  Certainly more chances than the 4-1 win against Cardiff and defensively probably better.
Disappointing CF performances, a reliance on set pieces and worldies and a lack of movement in the oppo box have been a feature of all our games.  

There are two challenges to our style. 

  1. What happens if the oppo, like City or Arsenal, come out and press against our pinball football and do it well - will we concede easily
  2. What happens if the oppo midfield never get drawn out - will we ever find any space or movement up front to score.

IMO every game so far has shown we can't do either.  Teams have been giving us the points so far.

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13 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Still think the WHU away is one of our better performances.  Certainly more chances than the 4-1 win against Cardiff and defensively probably better.
Disappointing CF performances, a reliance on set pieces and worldies and a lack of movement in the oppo box have been a feature of all our games.  

I agree with the disappointing CF performances.  Apart from Cardiff, where I though Giroud was very good we have been pretty much playing with 10 men. It's a major worry and one that will ultimately cost us this season. 

Just imagine we still had Costa,  it would change everything.

13 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

There are two challenges to our style. 

  1. What happens if the oppo, like City or Arsenal, come out and press against our pinball football and do it well - will we concede easily

Yes we will, thankfully not many teams will be able to do it and we should do enough to get back into the top 4.

13 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:
  1. What happens if the oppo midfield never get drawn out - will we ever find any space or movement up front to score.

This is my biggest concern. If we are unable to break teams down that sit 10 men behind the ball we are going to struggle. A decent striker would help. So would having Fabregas on the pitch. 

We need to find a way to either break teams down more easily, we're  half way there with Fabregas, or find a way of getting the opposition to come out of their own half. 

We have been keeping the ball, and winning it back so well that we are almost making it too difficult for ourselves by having the majority of our possession in the middle third, where we least want it.

 

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19 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Just imagine we still had Costa,  it would change everything.

Have been thinking exactly the same thing...

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With PSG chasing Kante , I can see a swap for someone like Draxler occurring at some point , attacking midfielder / Winger , two footed , can play left , right or down the middle and has a goal in him. 

It would be a shame as players like Kante are not easy to pick up but we're wasting him at the moment . ( this is not a slight on Sarri , Kante or anybody )

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