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Kezza

Kante and Jorginho - The Conundrum

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xCELERYx   
On 27/09/2018 at 8:07 PM, Bob Singleton said:

In effect a more fluid version of 4-2-3-1

For the most part, yeah.

Although there's still going to be other issues unresolved.

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xCELERYx   
7 hours ago, Kezza said:

Anyone feels Kovacic and Barkley instead of Kante could be better in this team? Crazy to think that but yeah. It's been a while since we say "Kante was everywhere in this match!"

I don't think there's a real solution either way to be honest with you, not unless Sarri alters his system a little anyway.

We drop Kante and there goes our only real bit of midfield resolve when we don't have the ball - which is something we already look suspect with as it is. We'd lose his energy, tackling, mobility and tracking back qualities. There's a good chance the midfield becomes further unbalanced then it can already be at times. 

The upside to dropping him for Barkley would be offensively gaining another creative player who can grab a goal or an assist. On the flip side, Barkley can be guilty of giving away possession cheaply, nor does he have that same energy or all-round game to fill the defensive duties when we aren't in possession. 

Fabregas would offer similar to Barkley, but with even less mobility and usefulness when not in possession. Having both Fabregas and Jorginho in the same side together probably won't happen either.

Because we generally have so much possession in games now it's a difficult balance to strike - more so because of issues in some other areas as well compound things further. Teams who may only end up getting 35% possession or so in a game are still able to cause us some serous problems defensively. Dropping our only midfielder who really has the skills to help tackle that issue could end up making the overall problem worse. 

Not to mention we'd look absolutely daft dropping a player like Kante to begin with. If that happened and we lost, oh boy. I can see the media sharpening their knives. 

Edited by xCELERYx

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paulw66   
10 hours ago, kev61 said:

Kante is the best shield to a defence in the world that 's where he should be playing in front of the defenders and behind midfield it's not as complicated as some people are making out - he is wasted otherwise, imagine playing Makelele pushed forward.

Nope, not the same at all. Makelele was the best at patrolling in front of the back 4. Kante at his best hunts the ball down all over the field. 

Kante couldn't play the role currently being performed by Jorginho, which is 100% relient on technical ability. 

Makele could do it, as he was far superior technically to Kante, whose attributes lie elsewhere. 

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On 10/22/2018 at 9:27 AM, paulw66 said:

Nope, not the same at all. Makelele was the best at patrolling in front of the back 4. Kante at his best hunts the ball down all over the field. 

Kante couldn't play the role currently being performed by Jorginho, which is 100% relient on technical ability. 

Makele could do it, as he was far superior technically to Kante, whose attributes lie elsewhere. 

Yes, Makelele was quite different to Kante, though Kante does have some of Maka's 6th sense in terms of knowing where the ball is going 2 passes in the future.

Maka cut off options for opponents.  He rarely tackled, but he did stop the opponents play.  Generally we won the ball when the player turned away from Maka and a FB or SFL or Essien appeared to take the ball away.  Maka did nothing overly fast.

Kante is a souped up video-game player, relying almost entirely on speed of thought, reactions and legs.  He does make the tackles himself, often on players who think they are unmarked.  Maka made opponents lose the ball.  Kante wins it direct.

Actually the best comparison for Kante is Essien, who wasn't actually much bigger, but got his reputation for aggression by being so rapid onto the ball and bursts of ultra-pace.
 

Still think Kante is going to be fine as a pressing AM.  Looking forward to more occasions when the front 5 go on a big press.

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I think that the bigger problem is our number 8 - Kovacic looks more suited to Jorginho's position and Barkley still looks scared to try something near the box. Kanté's role would be appreciated more if the guys ahead of him were doing what they're there to do. 

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Jasonb   

I think our attack is limited on the right as Kante and Willian don't support each other with overlaps. Hopefully this develops so we can stop opposition teams just needing to snuff out Hazard.

A better striker option in January would also be welcome.

Edited by Jasonb

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4 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

I think our attack is limited on the right as Kante and Willian don't support each other with overlaps. Hopefully this develops so we can stop opposition teams just needing to snuff out Hazard.

A better striker option in January would also be welcome.

Yes, compare the potency of Alonso-Kovacic-Hazard with Azpilicueta-Kanté-Willian. Very unbalanced.

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Has anyone watched any recent Italy games and if so what formation do they play and where does Jorginho play? Does he play like for like how he does for Sarri? Seems that will be the only evidence of how he functions in a different system.

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xCELERYx   
4 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said:

Has anyone watched any recent Italy games and if so what formation do they play and where does Jorginho play? Does he play like for like how he does for Sarri? Seems that will be the only evidence of how he functions in a different system.

Mainly been a 433 so far, although 442 has also been used. 

Jorginho has played as the middle CM in the 443 and as the LCM in the 442. He gets a lot of the ball still and is generally up the top in terms of passes made. He's been the only regular midfield fixture though and has had different midfield partners in each of the three Nation League games played. The one vs Poland where they played 433 Verratti was played at LCM and both had a even split in terms of possession and passes made.

Probably the biggest difference is that he gets forward a bit more with Italy and generally will average a couple of efforts on goal. Although the Italian team itself isn't as attack minded as we are under Sarri. 

Only a small sample size at the moment though.

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