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Michael Tucker

Chelsea 4 Cardiff City 1

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1 minute ago, paulw66 said:

There was a significant shift from 3-4-3 to 3-5-2 in the second season. May sound like a small change but it invariably meant that we were replacing Willian / Pedro with a defensive midfielder. It was painful to watch, especially against sides who should have been massively inferior. 

Slight change in formation, very little change in style.

Conte's teams are what they are, if people enjoy them that's fine. I didn't,  even when we won the league the style of football for me was not something I enjoy watching. 

As I've said the main difference between the two seasons was the first year we were excellent playing how Conte set us up, the second year we were awful and he was unable to do anything about it.

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paulw66   
8 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Personally I think the football we played under Jose the three times we won the league was far better to watch than two years ago.

The back to back side produced some of the most devastating football I have ever seen. The football we played for much of the season second time round was incredible. Admittedly we slowed down towards the end of the season but that was because it was more important not to lose than to win due  to the lead we had over the other teams.

 

2004/05 - 72 goals scored

2005/06 - 72 goals scored

2014/15 - 73 goals scored

2016/17 - 85 goals scored

I know you were very unimpressed with Conte last season, and with good reason, but you are letting that cloud your judgement as to what happened in his first season.

18% / 16% more goals is not insignificant. 

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What Sarii has managed to do (maybe with a little good fortune) is get on a winning streak whilst still sorting out new tactics and players. Liverpool look more the finished article but we can get better. Sarri has had a good look at Morata and now I'm hoping he is going to have a good look at Giroud (no contest IMO) . I suspect he's having a long hard look at Luiz in this new back 4 and pretty soon he might try Christenson there. He is getting the best out of Hazard ,Willian and Pedro (something Conte failed miserably at in second season), and he is experimenting with Kante's position. On top of that we are bedding in a new keeper.  

I can see that sooner or later (maybe sooner) we will lose a game, but important ground work is being done here while at the same time we look down at every team in the league. Happy days.

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1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

2004/05 - 72 goals scored

2005/06 - 72 goals scored

2014/15 - 73 goals scored

2016/17 - 85 goals scored

I know you were very unimpressed with Conte last season, and with good reason, but you are letting that cloud your judgement as to what happened in his first season.

18% / 16% more goals is not insignificant. 

For anyone else who was wondering, 2015-2016 was 59 goals scored. In which context, 85 goals is even more impressive - and our current scoring record would mislead one to consider over 100 is possible this year. Seeing is, however, believing, and the likes of MU, Citeh, Pool and Spuds might take a different view.

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1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

2004/05 - 72 goals scored

2005/06 - 72 goals scored

2014/15 - 73 goals scored

2016/17 - 85 goals scored

I know you were very unimpressed with Conte last season, and with good reason, but you are letting that cloud your judgement as to what happened in his first season.

18% / 16% more goals is not insignificant. 

Not really mate, I don't think we played particularly good football under Conte at any point.

The fact that we scored more goals under him than under Jose won't change my mind. There is no way in a million years anyone is going to persuade me that we played better football under Conte than Jose, especially the first two years with Jose, no matter how many more goals we scored.

Edited by Martin1905

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2 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Slight change in formation, very little change in style.

Conte's teams are what they are, if people enjoy them that's fine. I didn't,  even when we won the league the style of football for me was not something I enjoy watching. 

As I've said the main difference between the two seasons was the first year we were excellent playing how Conte set us up, the second year we were awful and he was unable to do anything about it.

Personally I think it was lightyears between the two sides. 

The 2016-17 team played great counter attacking football that was fast and ruthless. We didn't play a possession based style but did attack space with speed and 3-4 men forward. 

Once we changed to a 5311 in 2017-18 we became unwatchable. Worst football I've seen of any Chelsea manager ever. 

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Is it time football went down the same route as Rugby league, in that the trainers treat SO called injured players while the game is going on?

in Saturday's game, Holliet went down 3 times, supposedly injured..the referee stopped the game twice when Chelsea were on the attack (neither were head injuries), but on the the third occasion the ref had woken up and allowed play to go on, when Holliet saw the game wasn't going to be stopped, got to his feet but Willian lashed the ball in.

How many times do you see players go down acting injured to break up play, particularly from corners, when it's clear nothing is wrong with them,it's blatant cheating

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Holymoly   

The history books will show this as a comfortable win for us and I suppose it was however our midfield can seem horribly muddled sometimes. In order to accommodate both Jorginho and Kovacic Sarri has had to attempt to convert Kante into Lampard. It says much of Kante that he has been prepared to give it his best but the result has been that we have lost probably the best DM in the league and gained an average box to box midefielder.

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paulw66   
1 hour ago, Never happy said:

Is it time football went down the same route as Rugby league, in that the trainers treat SO called injured players while the game is going on?

in Saturday's game, Holliet went down 3 times, supposedly injured..the referee stopped the game twice when Chelsea were on the attack (neither were head injuries), but on the the third occasion the ref had woken up and allowed play to go on, when Holliet saw the game wasn't going to be stopped, got to his feet but Willian lashed the ball in.

How many times do you see players go down acting injured to break up play, particularly from corners, when it's clear nothing is wrong with them,it's blatant cheating

The referee was abysmal. You're right, he stopped the game for non head injuries (and one of them he actually wanted a contested drop ball despite us having comfortable possession and it being a Cardiff player down), then later he stopped the game for a head injury and gestured towards his head to say "head injury", so if he knows the laws, he knows he shouldn't stop the game for a non head injury.

In the first half Luiz took a quick free kick, and a Cardiff player, no more than 4 or 5 yards away, deliberately intercepted it and the referee allowed him to play on. 

To cap it off, he completely tried to bottle giving the penalty. He waited to see what the lino was doing.......flag incredibly stayed down, then after a few seconds pointed to the spot. He was really hoping the linesman was going to get him out of having to make a decision (guess). 

1 hour ago, Holymoly said:

The history books will show this as a comfortable win for us and I suppose it was however our midfield can seem horribly muddled sometimes. In order to accommodate both Jorginho and Kovacic Sarri has had to attempt to convert Kante into Lampard. It says much of Kante that he has been prepared to give it his best but the result has been that we have lost probably the best DM in the league and gained an average box to box midefielder.

To be fair, the midfield are currently learning a completely new set of directions. We are 5 games in, and we have won 5. Staying competitive (100% record so perhaps understating) whilst transitioning system has been an unexpected bonus. 

On the 2nd part, Kante is / was never a pure DM like Makelele. At his best Kante is allowed to roam and hunt the ball down all over the park. The key difference this year is that Kante is playing for a team that wants to dominate possession, rather than surrender it and counter attack. De-facto, for the majority of the game, Kante is unable to perform his best attribute (recovering the ball) because we have it. In the same way, we are seeing a better Hazard, Willian, Pedro because we have the ball, which plays to their strengths. For all of Kante's strengths, and I am huge fan of his, he doesn't have the same technical ability to play keep ball like some of our other players. At home against the league's weakest teams, I am not sure I would pick him. 

Additionally - at home against teams who won't move out of their half, Saturday showed why Giroud has to play over Morata. His strength and hold up play is far superior. If he had speed, he would be Drogba / Costa esque

Edited by paulw66
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2 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

Personally I think it was lightyears between the two sides. 

 

There certainly was in terms of performance but the style of football was very similar.

Let's not forget when we played 523 the first season, call it 343 if you want but the 'wing backs' played the same both seasons, much like they are now as full backs in a back 4 , but we still lined up with only 3 attacking players the majority of the time with Matic and Kante in midfield. 

The major difference between the two sides was Costa. I've said previously that Conte's teams are what they are and rely heavily on two or three players. When Costa left we fell apart.

Both seasons we sat back, defended deep and relied on quick counter attacks.  The first year it worked, the second we got found out, lost a key players,  and it didn't work. Very little difference in tactics, even with the tweak in formation. 

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