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1 hour ago, NoblyBobly said:

The point Jody was making was that coaches/managers are not 'seeing in training' because they are not looking. They are uninterested in what the players like Hudson O and Ampedu are doing in training. They don't care. They have their blinkers on and they are pointed in the direction of players as bad as Bakayoko and Morata (he mentioned no names). Now don't shoot the messenger, if you think Jody is speaking rubbish then send him a tweet telling him your experiences. 

But you are the one posting this nonsensical view. And you seem to genuinely believe this as well. 

Each and every player listed has a perfectly valid reason behind their exclusion. 

But no.. let’s freely regurgitate the point Jody makes and complain that players who are blatantly inferior in some way aren’t given an opportunity to show what the coaches seem to usually know already. 

You seem to think that this competition should be used solely to introduce the youth teamers. Introduce them to what? Hudson odoi and Ampadu are indeed talents. Ruben Loftus-Cheek cheek as well. Nobody is denying that, but that shouldn’t automatically guarantee them a place on the bench or the starting 11 in cup games. Not when other superior players are also short of game time (Emerson, Barkley, Moses, Fabregas, Cahill). 

And if we get knocked out at Anfield tonight, when else are they going to feature by the way?

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xCELERYx   

Firstly, it's always great to beat Liverpool - regardless of the competition. 

With that out of the way I can't help but feel indifferent about the performance overall. For the first 30 minutes or so I thought we looked good, moved the ball well and had some good chances to score. That's about where it ended though for me. Once Liverpool started to press us more and lifted their intensity, particularly in the second half, we looked slow and cumbersome. Too many sloppy turnovers and poor decisions when on the ball. We really struggled getting the ball out from the back and we were fortunate to not concede a couple of goals. Fought well towards the end and got some luck scoring from the rebound of Barkley's header. Then the sheer brilliance of Hazard rifling one home was the icing on the cake. Although, the result shouldn't paper over some of the glaring issue we do have - even though there was rotation had.

Would also like to point out how bloody good Cahill was for 90 minutes. For me, he's still our best CB option and was a solid presence tonight. Won what he needed to win in the air, showed his strength and experience positionally, along with doing what he needed to do with the ball at feet. All that was missing was a towering header from a corner into the back of the net. 

Elsewhere I thought Christensen really struggled and showed some poor awareness to the situations around him. Emerson looked sluggish defensively and Liverpool were able to exploit this in the second half by getting in behind. While I'd have to say this was one of Azpilicueta's worst games I've seen him play. 

In midfield I thought Barkley played well for 60-70 odd minutes. Made a few poor decisions with his passing, but there were still a number of positives including how hard he worked off the ball. I think with some more time out there he'll continue to grow. Did well with his header that ultimately allowed Emerson to score. Willian was typically frustrating as usual. Gets into good areas and then tops off it off by poor execution or decision making. Fabregas's influence wained the longer the game went on. He just doesn't have the legs these days to play a full 90 minutes in games that see the pace of the game upped. Once he started to get overran a little Liverpool managed to stake more control of midfield as the game went on. Moses was neither here nor there. Got into a few good positions but his final ball was once again his downfall. Unlikely to make much of a push for a regular role under Sarri. 

Upfront Morata did a couple of nice things early on but overall didn't really have much impact on the game in any regard. Was wasteful with his two great chances and didn't do much in the way of bringing others into play. Was also being sucked out of the CF area which was frustrating because there were a few occasions when Emerson has the ball and could have whipped it into the box expect Morata was no where to be seen. Didn't do much to suggest he should play ahead of Giroud any time soon.

With Liverpool next in the league, I'm sure the intensity will be raised further. 

 

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7 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

NO - if the oppo want to double mark one of our players, you say thankyou very much, you do not remove him from the team and give them 2 players back.

Not sure they double marked him, they certainly pressed us higher and with more intensity but they certainly didn't leave two men on him.

He was incredible for 30 minutes, then went missing. Be it because they pressed more, double marked him or whatever the fact remains he disappeared and that can't happen playing that role.

He showed last night he should be in the team, I've been saying it for a while, but it won't be instead of Jorginho as the deepest of the three. 

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46 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Not sure they double marked him, they certainly pressed us higher and with more intensity but they certainly didn't leave two men on him.

He was incredible for 30 minutes, then went missing. Be it because they pressed more, double marked him or whatever the fact remains he disappeared and that can't happen playing that role.

He showed last night he should be in the team, I've been saying it for a while, but it won't be instead of Jorginho as the deepest of the three. 

Perhaps a better way of saying it is that for 30 mins their front 3 pressed the back 4 and left Fabregas remarkably free when ever the back 4 achieved their goal of giving it to him.  From about 30 mins and especially H2 they just made sure Fabregas was covered, didn't chase the defenders down, just left them with ball and opportunity to do something without Fabregas.  And they didn't have a clue once the ball to Fabregas wasn't an option.
Certainly there was a big change in the focus of the Liverpool front 3, and it should have been an opportunity, not a problem. 
Luiz coming on changed it all - he became the focus and soon after they could no longer keep Fabregas out of the game.

I think Luiz put a lot of concerns about him to bed last night.  Christensen, even a fully fit one, doesn't come close in terms of play on the ball, and makes more mistakes.  Cahill is CB3 now for me.

9 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

The point Jody was making was that coaches/managers are not 'seeing in training' because they are not looking. They are uninterested in what the players like Hudson O and Ampedu are doing in training. They don't care. They have their blinkers on and they are pointed in the direction of players as bad as Bakayoko and Morata (he mentioned no names). Now don't shoot the messenger, if you think Jody is speaking rubbish then send him a tweet telling him your experiences. 

I think he was really talking about being a u18 coach, not making references to the seniors.  He told the story about Ranieri going to watch a young JT and say "I'm having him in the first team", not because anyone ever expected the manager to believe what the youth coaches were talking up, but because he had gone and seen him.  He also talked about a Euro U19 game going on at Cobham, and the first team manager sitting in his office.

8 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

You seem to think that this competition should be used solely to introduce the youth teamers. Introduce them to what? Hudson odoi and Ampadu are indeed talents. Ruben Loftus-Cheek cheek as well. Nobody is denying that, but that shouldn’t automatically guarantee them a place on the bench or the starting 11 in cup games. Not when other superior players are also short of game time (Emerson, Barkley, Moses, Fabregas, Cahill). 

Absolutely

5 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

In midfield I thought Barkley played well for 60-70 odd minutes. Made a few poor decisions with his passing, but there were still a number of positives including how hard he worked off the ball. I think with some more time out there he'll continue to grow.

Some catastrophic decisions with his passing.  Mostly in those trips back to Jorgy-land to provide an alternative focal point.  

Am I the only one who thinks that despite the assist Barkley was dreadful?

Edited by Droy was my hero

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paulw66   
8 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

 
Last season one guy, not even their CF, got 32 goals, and they finished 4th with 75 points.

Yes, this has occured to me.......both Spurs and Liverpool had players who got roughly 30 league goals each last season, and came nowhere near winning the title. 

The impact of either having even just a decent season could be very significant 

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35 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Perhaps a better way of saying it is that for 30 mins their front 3 pressed the back 4 and left Fabregas remarkably free when ever the back 4 achieved their goal of giving it to him.  From about 30 mins and especially H2 they just made sure Fabregas was covered, didn't chase the defenders down, just left them with ball and opportunity to do something without Fabregas.  And they didn't have a clue once the ball to Fabregas wasn't an option.
Certainly there was a big change in the focus of the Liverpool front 3, and it should have been an opportunity, not a problem. 
Luiz coming on changed it all - he became the focus and soon after they could no longer keep Fabregas out of the game.

Ok, I agree with what you are saying. Fabregas had a sublime 30 minutes,  good enough to argue he is more of a threat in that role than Jorginho against teams that sit back and don't press. I do however think that Jorginho wouldn't have struggled as much once they put pressure on the him, his awareness of opposition players around him and how he creates space for him and others are two of his biggest strengths. 

With Jorginho doing that Fabregas would be slightly further ahead and would thrive even more with the time and space Jorginho would create for him. 

I'm pretty sure we agree both should be in the team one way or another.

35 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think Luiz put a lot of concerns about him to bed last night.  Christensen, even a fully fit one, doesn't come close in terms of play on the ball, and makes more mistakes.  Cahill is CB3 now for me.

100%. Personally, and I know I'm one of the few, but I dont have any concerns about Luiz. We all know he can be prone to an error but what he brings to a team, trying to play the way we are, is far more important than that. He's up there with the best ball playing defenders in the world. 

I'm pretty sure some have heard so much that he can't play in a back four that they begin to believe it. Much like Alonso isn't suited to left back, Rudiger isn't suited to a back 4, Willian and Pedro aren't good enough or in fact nearly all our players aren't good enough. 

It obviously stems from people debating last season and some unwilling to see the blindingly obvious, making excuses. The same people that can't get excited about the change in style, going away to Anfield and winning, having played 8, won 7 and drawn 1, scoring plenty of goals in the process. At some point people are just going to have to admit tgey got an awful lot wrong about last season and what the problems were.

35 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Some catastrophic decisions with his passing.  Mostly in those trips back to Jorgy-land to provide an alternative focal point.  

Am I the only one who thinks that despite the assist Barkley was dreadful?

No, he was woeful. He's been woeful in every game he has played. Nowhere near good enough, he never will be.

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Faramir   
11 hours ago, PeteRobbo said:

Agreed Martin. Far too many on here determined to be negative whatever happens.

This. Yep, it is getting beyond riduculous. So annoying reading this forum sometimes.

Cynical. Pessimistic. Annoying to the extreme. I often deliberately miss reading this forum because of the negative vibes. You pessimists feed off each other. Many of you guys complain about the media giving us bad press and you are way worse than them with your miserable negative comments about your own team.

We have 6 wins and a tie with a completely new system being implemented.

People complaining about the youngsters not getting a game. Did you ever stop to contemplate that by winning this game we move on in the competition and could get drawn against 'weaker' opposition which gives CHO and Ampuda a chance for a game?

*sigh*

Edited by Faramir

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23 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Yes, this has occured to me.......both Spurs and Liverpool had players who got roughly 30 league goals each last season, and came nowhere near winning the title. 

The impact of either having even just a decent season could be very significant 

I've said this many times now. Salah only needs to drop 10 goals and the impact on Liverpool will be huge. 

Also if Hazard has a Salah like season, or anything like it, the impact will be even bigger. 

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Apart from the result, best things in the game were a referee who stood up to the so called atmosphere of the home fans (screaming for anything), booking 5 Liverpool players (although if he done his job correctly and booked the diver he would have been off for his second card)..seeing Milner moaning to the ref.

Then Henderson coming off the bench to continue to complain to the ref, saying it wasn't a foul when we got our equaliser,he then bundled Hazrd over and shouted abuse at Hazard who just grinned at him, (which wound him up even more)..then he got he's enevitable yellow for hacking Hazard down.

And finally the darling of the press (Klopp), complaining to sky "there were 3 players offside" for the equaliser..Carragher even said 'it doesn't matter as long as they don't touch the ball or interfere with the keeper'

cast your minds back to when Henry played for Arsenal, how many times would he wander offside, and Arsenal would win the ball and square it for him to score, as he would get back behind the ball

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11 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

But you are the one posting this nonsensical view.

I didn't know that posting something that an ex Chelsea player and last seasons incredibly successful youth team coach (and maybe even future first team coach) said on TV in front of millions would offend your sensibilities so much....I would never have posted it if I had known. Forgive me. Thank God you didn't see and hear it in your own living room because you would have probably put your foot through the screen.

 

11 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

But no.. let’s freely regurgitate the point Jody makes and complain that players who are blatantly inferior

Again I can only apologise for the regurgitation of Jody. Rest assured, safe in the knowledge that it will NEVER happen again. But while we here can you tell me how you know that Hudson O is blatantly inferior to Barclay. And while you're at it can you tell me how you came to the conclusion the RLC is blatantly inferior to Bakayoko (last season) or that Ampadu is not fit to lace Christensons boots. You seem very very dismissive of some very bright young talent that we have. In fact I'm a little bit offended that you should talk about Chelsea players in that tone. 

 

11 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

And if we get knocked out at Anfield tonight, when else are they going to feature by the way?

Well we had to bring Hazard on (risking potential injury) to do it didn't we. So the strong team that Sarri put out didn't work did it? Did I need to see Morata again? No..he was rubbish yet again. Did I need to see Moses again? No...still a piece of wet cardboard. Did I need to see Barclay again..not really because he's had plenty of chances this season and BTW he made a horrific back pass that should have led to a Pool goal. Did I need to see Christenson again...not really , I know his qualities and his faults, and BTW he made a horrific back pass that should have led to a Pool goal. 

IMO opinion the team I would have put out (and dare I say it , Jody might have put out) would not have been inferior to the one Sarri chose but actually ferior (what a shame that's not actually a proper word but I hope you get the jist of my point). 

Edited by NoblyBobly

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