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Michael Tucker

Tottenham Hotspur 3 Chelsea 1

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15 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Zidane had been working with RM for 7 years in various roles, sporting Director, first team coach, special adviser, RM B manager,.
Lampard got his A coaching badge this summer, and was due to start on his Pro badge this autumn.  That means he can't manage a PL team. or one in a UEFA competition yet.  

As Jodi has said, familiarity with the youth players is not a requirement at Chelsea:)

Various roles such as Special Adviser??? Have we got one of those...Maybe we should?. You nearly forgot tea boy in that list.

Zidane achieved first team coach position after coaching the Madrid 3rd team. That was the extent of his coaching experience. He had never managed a top club at home or abroad and ended up one of the most successful coaches in that clubs illustrious history....multiple league, multiple cups and multiple Champions league titles. I reckon Jody Morris had more experience than Zidane in coaching when he took over at Madrid. Zidane is unusual I will grant you. But only  unusual because top players are never given the opportunity to manage top teams like Zidane did. We know they don't do great at lesser clubs ( Frank beware, Zola keep your head down) but we don't have enough stats to make a judgement when they coach big teams. Maybe Zidane would have flopped at somewhere like Granada?

As I understand it , coaching a Prem team would not have been a problem as he could have been fast tracked. He just officially takes over when his Pro licence is completed ( did Gigs have his Pro licence at United?) .With regard to Europa league, with any luck we would have been banned from taking part in that pile of shite tournament. Losing in the final to Spurs while finishing 5th in the league would probably mean cancelling the open top bus parade.

Regarding last line. If Jodie said that , he was certainly referring to how wrong that situation was and is.  I heard Jodie with my own ears , complaining that a negative with first team coaches is that they don't look enough at the promising younsters.... The first team is the only thing they are concerned with. Jodie would have been Lampards window of knowledge into that area of the club. Who knows Abrahams and CHO might even have got the odd game.

We'll never know with Frank so it's a pointless argument but nothing anyone has said has come close to convincing me he would have flopped any quicker than Sarri might flop.  

 

 

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Small typo above... Zidanes only previous coaching job was the indeed coach of the RM second team ( Castillo) but in the third tier of the Spanish league. He did this job for about a year. His results in this lower league were far from impressive but Real took a huge gamble and hired him as head coach. 3 seasons later he had won the lot.

Also worth mentioning is that Pep Guardiola's only previous coaching role before taking over Barca was as as the Barca B coach.  Two very inexperienced coaches who benefited from their clubs taking a gamble. 

 

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xCELERYx   
13 hours ago, paulw66 said:

How many of those 13 came from set pieces, either direct free kicks, or being up for a corner? Open play goals, he is probably on par, so nothing to do with playing position. Alonso has also won 2 penalties and got a couple of assists from within the opponents penalty area. 

4 of his goals since joining have come from direct free kicks, 3 from headers. Not sure how many of these headers were scored from a corner, from memory I can think of one. 

The point is more about that the fact he's playing deeper at fullback and he isn't getting into the same sort of attacking positions as he was while playing WB. There's more defensive responsibility requested of him now without the extra protection, so he has to be mindful of that. That's just the nature of his new role in a back four. 

Even if you disregard everything, history shows that he's played his best football at wingback. It was the case at Fiorentina when I watched him there, and across his first two seasons here. Just as Luiz has played his best football in a back three and Kante as a defensive midfielder. That's not to say he can't play fullback, it just doesn't make the most of his qualities. Either way, this has been discussed to death before, so I'm just going to leave it at that.  

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3 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

The point is more about that the fact he's playing deeper at fullback and he isn't getting into the same sort of attacking positions as he was while playing WB. There's more defensive responsibility requested of him now without the extra protection, so he has to be mindful of that. That's just the nature of his new role in a back four. 

 

No  he plays just the same way this season as last.  That is how FBs generally play in a back 4.  He is just as far up the pitch as before.

5 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Small typo above... Zidanes only previous coaching job was the indeed coach of the RM second team ( Castillo) but in the third tier of the Spanish league. He did this job for about a year. His results in this lower league were far from impressive but Real took a huge gamble and hired him as head coach. 3 seasons later he had won the lot.

Special adviser to the President, not just any adviser, with the aim of restructuring the football side.  First team coach for JM.  Sporting Director.
I don't know what you don't get about his 7 years at RM before becoming manager.

Moreover, while everyone loves Zidane and wants to go along with his claim he resigned, it is absolutely clear he was sacked after 2 and a half years.

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paulw66   
10 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Yes I mean look at those muppets Real Madrid appointing a novice like Zidane....wow!

And do you know of two coaches out there who are more familiar with Chelsea first team players, squad players, youth players, our set up, our back room staff, our fans, our owner than Lampard and Morris?  of course you don't.

No surprise in that reaction because like I say, I'm in a minority of one. I'm probably wrong and you're no doubt all right. But I'll let you know if I have changed my mind at the end of the season.

I don't see how what Zidane did at RM has much relevance to us. As Droy pointed out, ZZ was working closely with Real for a few years before he took over. 

As for the second parapgraph, I didn't make that a requirement (having familiarity), you did, and I questioned the relevance, and the depth of that familiarity that they have with the current first team players anyway. 

You'll let me know what at the end of the season? Whatever happens, how will you ever know if SFL and Morris would or would not have done better? Pure guesswork. 

Edited by paulw66

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5 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

The point is more about that the fact he's playing deeper at fullback and he isn't getting into the same sort of attacking positions as he was while playing WB. 

You can't be serious witj a comment like that?

Wing back, full back, call it what you want. To claim he isn't getting as far forward now is just plain wrong. 

Any full back in an attacking team is going to get into more advanced positions than playing as a wing back in a Conte team.

Alonso was absolutely brilliant for the first part of the season, made everyone who claims he's not as good a full back as wing back look ridiculous. He's not been as good recently, the whole team hasn't.

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paulw66   
5 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

4 of his goals since joining have come from direct free kicks, 3 from headers. Not sure how many of these headers were scored from a corner, from memory I can think of one. 

 

4 direct free kicks, one header from a corner and one goal the result of being up for a free kick, so 7 goals from open play in his first 2 seasons. He has 1 from roughly 1/3 of the season so far, so pro rata he is on for 3 league goals this season from open play......not much different to 7 over 2 seasons. 

Either way, without continuing with the synmantics, anyone can see that Alonso has spent a vast chunk of this season in the opponents half, to the point he has been criticsed for it. He is as high the up the pitch this season as he has ever been. 

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7 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

4 direct free kicks, one header from a corner and one goal the result of being up for a free kick, so 7 goals from open play in his first 2 seasons. He has 1 from roughly 1/3 of the season so far, so pro rata he is on for 3 league goals this season from open play......not much different to 7 over 2 seasons. 

Either way, without continuing with the synmantics, anyone can see that Alonso has spent a vast chunk of this season in the opponents half, to the point he has been criticsed for it. He is as high the up the pitch this season as he has ever been. 

Glad I'm not the only one to have noticed this. 

People used his lack of speed as a reason for him being unsuitable to playing full back, now he's not getting forward enough and scoring enough goals. Its desperate stuff to hang on to points being made about a previous manager.

It wasn't that long ago Sarri was hailing him as the best full back in Europe.

The teams form has dipped, almost every single players has too. 

Edited by Martin1905

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xCELERYx   
23 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

You can't be serious witj a comment like that?

Wing back, full back, call it what you want. To claim he isn't getting as far forward now is just plain wrong. 

Any full back in an attacking team is going to get into more advanced positions than playing as a wing back in a Conte team.

Alonso was absolutely brilliant for the first part of the season, made everyone who claims he's not as good a full back as wing back look ridiculous. He's not been as good recently, the whole team hasn't.

The eye test doesn't fail. I've seen Alonso play regularly prior to joining Chelsea, he plays better further upfield and always has. Fullback and wing back are two different positions, regardless if you think they aren't. They involve different requirements and subsequently means certain individual qualities are more suited than others. 

Not disputing he can't play fullback, he's just a better wing back. It allowed him to get into better forward positions. Overall it's a position that takes more advantage of his strengths and helps compensate for his weaknesses. 

Do whatever you want with that. 

Edited by xCELERYx

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3 minutes ago, xCELERYx said:

The eye test doesn't fail. I've seen Alonso play regularly prior to joining Chelsea, he plays better further upfield and always has.

Then what's your issue, he's not playing any further back this year?

 

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