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Michael Tucker

Tottenham Hotspur 3 Chelsea 1

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2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I don't know what you don't get about his 7 years at RM before becoming manager

I get it , I just don't agree that his other "jobs" made him a stick on for the main coaching role. My whole point is that RM made a leap of faith by employing an ex player whose only experience in management was a year coaching the RM B side in the third tier of the Spanish league....a job that he actually didn't do very well. Maybe you could argue that the leap of faith of employing Lampard and Morris is a bigger one and I wouldn't disagree, but you cannot just dismiss my point as irrelevant because any reasonable person can see that their is a good comparison between the two. You and Paul are floundering to make it look otherwise. 

 

2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Moreover, while everyone loves Zidane and wants to go along with his claim he resigned, it is absolutely clear he was sacked after 2 and a half years.

Well not really clear is it?. He resigned 5 days after winning the CL for the third time in 2 and a half years and his resignation was accepted. What everyone does know is that he had a very tempestuous and fiery relationship with President Perez. They clashed over many issues and his past "Special Adviser Role" to Perez didn't turn out that special. Interestingly the straw that broke the donkeys back was Eden Hazard. Zidane wanted him at all costs and RM didn't get the deal done. Zidane eventually saw his position as untenable and resigned. RM agreed not to contest it.

 

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I don't see how what Zidane did at RM has much relevance to us.

Of course you don't because it makes my point about a big team taking on an untested but fabulous ex player as a Coach rather well. As I said to Droy above, RM took a leap of faith and it worked.  Chelsea didn't want to take that risk....they probably said  "Wow..no way man!"  If you would like another example I will give you Pep Guardiola.  Barca bought him back into the fold after retiring from playing and he spent a year managing the B team before being made Head Coach. It worked out rather well for them. If on the other hand, you want me to give you an example much much closer to home I might admittedly struggle. I can't think of another West London club that had a player as fabulous, and as smart, with a UEFA A coaching license, that had won everything there was to win at club level and that wanted to go into coaching. Trust QPR and Brentford let me down again! I could give you Hoddle and Vialli as examples of ex players that did well coaching their old West London club, but that would be like shooting fish in a barrel for you. 

 

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

I didn't make that a requirement (having familiarity), you did, and I questioned the relevance, and the depth of that familiarity that they have with the current first team players anyway. 

I didn't say it was a requirement (that would be stupid...stop putting words in my mouth) I clearly inferred that it was an advantage. This was in response to you sarcastically saying "Wow" and then incorrectly listing players that Lampard and Morris had/hadn't worked with. Besides, I'm perfectly entitled to broaden the argument out a little bit to back up a point aren't I ?  In fact I'll do it again. Lampard is as rare as Unicorn shite. To have a player that good , with that history and those links to the club , with that intelligence and that of course willingness to coach is something that may not come around again. Zidane by all accounts is not the sharpest toll in the box, yet he still achieved what he achieved.It just shows.

 

2 hours ago, paulw66 said:

You'll let me know what at the end of the season? Whatever happens, how will you ever know if SFL and Morris would or would not have done better? Pure guesswork. 

Perhaps you didn't read my response to Droy when I said " We will now never know with Frank so it's a pointless argument" ...hey look we agreed on something!!

The thing I said I'd let you know about, at the end of the season was 'MY OPINION' on whether Lamps/Morris combo could have done better than Sarri. I might also give you my opinion on something like how well Zidane would have done if he came here....but people are free to ignore any of my opinions if they seem irrelevant to them....please do.

 

As a footnote, while I was zipping around the internet doing a bit of research on the subject, I came across an article by Neil Ashton in the Sun from earlier this year. The headline was  " Have Chelsea missed a trick (by not getting Lampard on the coaching staff) ".  Well at least there's one more idiot out there apart from me prepared to ask the question. But I mean what is the point of even asking!? Lets just focus on Sarri until he is sacked.

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4 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Glad I'm not the only one to have noticed this. 

People used his lack of speed as a reason for him being unsuitable to playing full back, now he's not getting forward enough and scoring enough goals. Its desperate stuff to hang on to points being made about a previous manager.

It wasn't that long ago Sarri was hailing him as the best full back in Europe.

The teams form has dipped, almost every single players has too. 

You and paul66 are right he is in the oppositions half as much as ever however his lack of speed puts the back line under greater pressure as he struggles to return to his defensive position before the opposition counter.

Under Conte his lack of speed was countered by one of the back 3 or kante acting as cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

I get it , I just don't agree that his other "jobs" made him a stick on for the main coaching role. My whole point is that RM made a leap of faith by employing an ex player whose only experience in management was a year coaching the RM B side in the third tier of the Spanish league....a job that he actually didn't do very well. Maybe you could argue that the leap of faith of employing Lampard and Morris is a bigger one and I wouldn't disagree, but you cannot just dismiss my point as irrelevant because any reasonable person can see that their is a good comparison between the two. You and Paul are floundering to make it look otherwise. 

A much bigger one.  But if leaps of faith are required, I am available, I also used to be a banker, I'm younger than Sarri (just) and I don't smoke.  And I am familiar with the squad, even if none of them know me.  And I don't have a Pro License just like SFL doesn't have, but if you can get around that for Frank, surely you can do it for me too.

 

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A rather odd press conference from Sarri in which he attributes blame for the spurs defeat on his players attitude.

Insistis that Kante will NOT play in the holding midfielder role under him and questions his performance in the last game.

Quote: 'In central midfield I want Jorginho or Fabregas.  I don't want Kante in this position.  He lost his position (in the last match).  He attacked too much the other box.  THis is not one of the best characteristics of Kante.'

He also delivered a frank assesment of Hudson Odoi that he must improve before he can get near the first team.

Quote: 'He has to improve a lot.  First  of all in the defensive phase.  he has to learn more without the ball.'

Club insiders fear that lack of playing time under Sarri could tempt youngsters like Hudson Odoi (one of the most talented academy prospects in recent years) to look elsewhere for first team opportunities with European giants like Bayern already circling.

C'mon Sarri sort it out mate!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6438147/Sarri-called-Chelsea-players-one-one-meetings-Spurs-loss.html

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/28/maurizio-sarri-reveals-why-he's-not-given-callum-hudson-odoi-a-chance-for-chelsea-8187167/

 

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paulw66   
3 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

I get it , I just don't agree that his other "jobs" made him a stick on for the main coaching role. My whole point is that RM made a leap of faith by employing an ex player whose only experience in management was a year coaching the RM B side in the third tier of the Spanish league....a job that he actually didn't do very well. Maybe you could argue that the leap of faith of employing Lampard and Morris is a bigger one and I wouldn't disagree, but you cannot just dismiss my point as irrelevant because any reasonable person can see that their is a good comparison between the two. You and Paul are floundering to make it look otherwise. 

 

Well not really clear is it?. He resigned 5 days after winning the CL for the third time in 2 and a half years and his resignation was accepted. What everyone does know is that he had a very tempestuous and fiery relationship with President Perez. They clashed over many issues and his past "Special Adviser Role" to Perez didn't turn out that special. Interestingly the straw that broke the donkeys back was Eden Hazard. Zidane wanted him at all costs and RM didn't get the deal done. Zidane eventually saw his position as untenable and resigned. RM agreed not to contest it.

 

Of course you don't because it makes my point about a big team taking on an untested but fabulous ex player as a Coach rather well. As I said to Droy above, RM took a leap of faith and it worked.  Chelsea didn't want to take that risk....they probably said  "Wow..no way man!"  If you would like another example I will give you Pep Guardiola.  Barca bought him back into the fold after retiring from playing and he spent a year managing the B team before being made Head Coach. It worked out rather well for them. If on the other hand, you want me to give you an example much much closer to home I might admittedly struggle. I can't think of another West London club that had a player as fabulous, and as smart, with a UEFA A coaching license, that had won everything there was to win at club level and that wanted to go into coaching. Trust QPR and Brentford let me down again! I could give you Hoddle and Vialli as examples of ex players that did well coaching their old West London club, but that would be like shooting fish in a barrel for you. 

 

I didn't say it was a requirement (that would be stupid...stop putting words in my mouth) I clearly inferred that it was an advantage. This was in response to you sarcastically saying "Wow" and then incorrectly listing players that Lampard and Morris had/hadn't worked with. Besides, I'm perfectly entitled to broaden the argument out a little bit to back up a point aren't I ?  In fact I'll do it again. Lampard is as rare as Unicorn shite. To have a player that good , with that history and those links to the club , with that intelligence and that of course willingness to coach is something that may not come around again. Zidane by all accounts is not the sharpest toll in the box, yet he still achieved what he achieved.It just shows.

 

Perhaps you didn't read my response to Droy when I said " We will now never know with Frank so it's a pointless argument" ...hey look we agreed on something!!

The thing I said I'd let you know about, at the end of the season was 'MY OPINION' on whether Lamps/Morris combo could have done better than Sarri. I might also give you my opinion on something like how well Zidane would have done if he came here....but people are free to ignore any of my opinions if they seem irrelevant to them....please do.

 

As a footnote, while I was zipping around the internet doing a bit of research on the subject, I came across an article by Neil Ashton in the Sun from earlier this year. The headline was  " Have Chelsea missed a trick (by not getting Lampard on the coaching staff) ".  Well at least there's one more idiot out there apart from me prepared to ask the question. But I mean what is the point of even asking!? Lets just focus on Sarri until he is sacked.

So much to go through, but I'll pick the obvious holes.........Hoddle joined having managed to Swindon promotion, he wasn't a novice. He also picked up a team whose expectations were somewhat lower than where they are now. Vialli.......love him to bits, but he rode the crest of a wave created by Hoddle and Gullit, and soon ran out of gas and was fired 18 months later. His managerial record thereafter is somewhat terrible. 

Then to use Neil Ashton, a clown who writes for a comic, as a comrade in arms...... not sure that cements your argument at all. 

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chelboy   
29 minutes ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

You and paul66 are right he is in the oppositions half as much as ever however his lack of speed puts the back line under greater pressure as he struggles to return to his defensive position before the opposition counter.

Under Conte his lack of speed was countered by one of the back 3 or kante acting as cover. 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly , what people are forgetting about this system is if full backs go forward quickly they have to get back just as quick. Alonso has found himself in poor positions many times this season forcing us to play in an awkward back 2 or 3 when being countered. Our biggest issue is defending wide areas it has been like that since the first game against Huddersfield and it got badly exposed against Arsenal too. I have said it already but this back 4 will never be good defensively neither will it suit Sarriball in the PL. Having slow full backs in a high line pressing team is a recipe for disaster especially when your DM also lacks speed to recover. Look how teams use to counter City so easily in Pep 1st season. Now they are much better at coping with counters. They would never get 100 points with the full backs they had in Pep 1st season. 

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12 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

So much to go through, but I'll pick the obvious holes.........Hoddle joined having managed to Swindon promotion, he wasn't a novice. He also picked up a team whose expectations were somewhat lower than where they are now. Vialli.......love him to bits, but he rode the crest of a wave created by Hoddle and Gullit, and soon ran out of gas and was fired 18 months later. His managerial record thereafter is somewhat terrible. 

Then to use Neil Ashton, a clown who writes for a comic, as a comrade in arms...... not sure that cements your argument at all. 

Well as I said,  I thought I'd give you at least two opportunities to get the goldfish from point blank range with a 12 bore. However I think you'd agree that both were fairly successful as Chelsea managers although Hoddle left for England before he could do anything really special.

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13 minutes ago, Gormangorman said:

A rather odd press conference from Sarri in which he attributes blame for the spurs defeat on his players attitude.

Imagine if JM had said that.

Can we expect a couple of "club legends" to demand Sarri must go now?

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22 minutes ago, chelboy said:

Exactly , what people are forgetting about this system is if full backs go forward quickly they have to get back just as quick.

Azpi almost never goes forward though - unless we are a goal down with 20 mins to go.  We still don't play a back 4 in the way the rest of the big 6 do.

 

4 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

As a footnote, while I was zipping around the internet doing a bit of research on the subject, I came across an article by Neil Ashton in the Sun from earlier this year. The headline was  " Have Chelsea missed a trick (by not getting Lampard on the coaching staff) ". 

Surely the real question would have been "has Lampard missed a trick not joining the coaching staff under Conte".
The obvious answer (other than his not speaking Italian) is that he has done far better for himself by joining Derby (after hanging around at Cobham long enough to get himself the A licence needed for the Championship).

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