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Michael Tucker

Crystal Palace 0 Chelsea 1

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15 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Oh no it wasn't!!!
Never put your real dob on a social media site, even with a fake name.
(but it is soon - thanks & Happy New Year).

Krembots have birthdays???? Bloody hell... I never knew that!

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1 hour ago, Bob Singleton said:

Krembots have birthdays???? Bloody hell... I never knew that!

There is a lot you don't know Bob.  Try some New Knowledge or the Integrity Initiative.  They have plenty to say about Krembots.  They invented them.

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On 1/2/2019 at 2:25 AM, Droy was my hero said:

No it doesn't.  Only for Italian managers or pre-RA.  Other than that there is Sheva and Cuadrado.  Can't think of anyone else.

Yes it does, because I wasn't limiting my self to the Roman era even if you were. In the modern era since the foreign players started arriving we have done lots of business with italy. Probably around a dozen Italian players plus the ones who weren't Italian but came from Italian clubs like Sheva. This number doesn't include the ones already here. The links with this club and Italy are further demonstrated by the fact we have employed no less than 5 Italian managers plus Zola as a number two (plus of course Chelsea players that have gone the other way to the italian league).  I'd go as far as to say that Italian personnel have influenced our club in modern times (for good or bad) more than any other foreign nation. So no it doesn't surprise me or make me think that the current crop were all Conte signings. 

But the point is this,  Conte spent a great deal of his time (more than he should) last season, sniping at the board about their transfer policy and how it wasn't "his job" to be involved in that process. That would indicate to me that he wasn't very involved in that transfer policy. I know what your reasons are for thinking otherwise but I just don't agree with them. I heard Conte with my own ears and that's good enough for me to come to a conclusion. Did you hear him make these comments?

Edited by NoblyBobly

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21 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

No.

The quotes from Lukaku that he was all set for a return to Chelsea until his agent who he's since sacked, changed to United at the last minute for the agents fee we wouldn't pay. 

There were reports in the media that Morata had dyed his hair red ready for the United move too. 

Well done for sticking up for your mate though, like night follows day. 

The bold bit is pathetic, Mark. Have a conversation with me or don't.

You didn't really respond to anything I said; how does a manager who has no say in transfers have a first choice? It doesn't make any sense. And why do you put stock in reported quotes that can rarely be verified, either in terms of whether or not they were said or (if they were) if they were honest? As has already been pointed out (I dread to say by who in case we get more comedy), that quote says nothing about Morata, Conte or Chelsea beyond what you choose to read into.

This is fairly typical of an argument, especially an online one IMO; two completely unnecessarily polarised positions. For my part, I think Conte had much more to do with transfers than previous managers given what I consider to be a palpable change in how and where we did our business. I think this was mistake, and I wouldn't be surprised if they club think the same. I doubt Conte completely called the shots, mind. Further, I think you're setting a fairly ridiculous standard if managers/coaches absolutely have to be given the specific player they want (and again, I'd challenge you to explain by what mechanism a manager who isn't playing a big role in transfers would even have a first-choice) in order to succeed. What is the point of a manager who can only operate with exactly what they want, especially if we do place stock in the reports and what Conte wanted was record transfers in every position?

My reading is that Conte, like 95% of football managers and coaches, probably didn't get exactly who he wanted most often (I.e. the specific players) but got the kind or type of players he wanted. I have some sympathy if you have a third-rate Italian right back foisted upon you when you asked for an attacking midfielder, but not when you demand a £60m+ former player and get a more achievable equivalent. I think one of those scenarios resonates with Conte far, far more than the other.

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46 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

The bold bit is pathetic, Mark. Have a conversation with me or don't.

You didn't really respond to anything I said; how does a manager who has no say in transfers have a first choice? It doesn't make any sense. And why do you put stock in reported quotes that can rarely be verified, either in terms of whether or not they were said or (if they were) if they were honest? As has already been pointed out (I dread to say by who in case we get more comedy), that quote says nothing about Morata, Conte or Chelsea beyond what you choose to read into.

I don't believe I said he had no say , I said whenever he asked for someone , they got him someone else , someone he didn't rate as highly .

In response to agreeing in a round about way with he who shall not be named that the squad was unbalanced in my opinion due to buying "the kind of" players the manager wanted and not the actual players the manager wanted .

In terms of what to believe I still believe that direct quotations , whether a pack of lies or not are more reliable than some geezer off the internet , in my opinion 

As for the bold bit , firstly , I thought I was having a conversation with you , secondly it does appear that whenever I get into one with HHSNBN you come riding in to the rescue with exactly the same viewpoint , I don't particularly mind , we all need good allies from time to time and despite what you may think to the contrary HHSNBN is actually one of the most interesting people on here in my opinion and someone who I think is a good egg in general happy to give and take and remain friendly afterwards  which I hope you are too , but it does happen quite a lot .

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2 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

But the point is this,  Conte spent a great deal of his time (more than he should) last season, sniping at the board about their transfer policy and how it wasn't "his job" to be involved in that process.

No he didn't.  He made a few silly quotes about not being involved in transfers when being pressured news days before the transfer deadlines.  These few quotes got repeated endlessly because the press, like most of us, were speculating about the relationship between Conte and Board.  The same repeated quotes appeared all season long.  They were never meant to be taken seriously.

Sarri did the same apparently yesterday, saying he didn't know about the transfer of Pulsilic.  The quot, much out of context, was then laughed at by the media saying that it was impossible a manager didn't know about the club's transfers - just like 99% of people would laugh at the idea that Conte didn't know about transfers in his time here.

 

51 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

In terms of what to believe I still believe that direct quotations , whether a pack of lies or not are more reliable than some geezer off the internet , in my opinion

So Sarri didn't know about Pulsilic - direct quote apparently.

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12 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

 

So Sarri didn't know about Pulsilic - direct quote apparently.

No , he was misquoted ( to make him and CFC look like a bunch of blundering buffoons )  what he said was along the lines of he was asked his opinion regarding signing Pulisic a few weeks back and he gave the board his report , he just hadn't realised we'd signed him yet. 

Come on , agree to disagree , there's no need to feud , we're all friends here ...

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54 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I don't believe I said he had no say , I said whenever he asked for someone , they got him someone else , someone he didn't rate as highly ...

Snipped just to keep things short ...

I guess a sticking point then is how the 'someone else/someone else he didn't rate as highly' list came to be. I expect Conte was as involved in its making as anyone else (unless of course his first-choices were so unobtainable/mental that eyebrows were raised ...). 

Not saying it's your position as such, but the broad argument that Conte didn't do as well as he might have because he didn't get all the expensive, unavailable, world class players he wanted IMO doesn't really speak very well of Conte at all. I'm confused whenever I see any variation of it used as a defence, because it seems a much more scathing assessment of him than anything I (as not a huge fan) would ever say about him.

The DWMH thing gets boring for me, but precisely because so much of this board seems to be about him. It's not even about defending him; he's a big boy. It's about being bored by the same digs over and over again. Maybe I'll pick a specific thing to disagree with him about.

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3 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

 

Not saying it's your position as such, but the broad argument that Conte didn't do as well as he might have because he didn't get all the expensive, unavailable, world class players he wanted IMO doesn't really speak very well of Conte at all. I'm confused whenever I see any variation of it used as a defence, because it seems a much more scathing assessment of him than anything I (as not a huge fan) would ever say about him.

 

Oh , in all honesty I think he behaved appallingly last season , what he should have done is knuckle down and get on with it , bide his time , do his best and move on to better things . 

However , he's just not made that way .

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

No , he was misquoted ( to make him and CFC look like a bunch of blundering buffoons )  what he said was along the lines of he was asked his opinion regarding signing Pulisic a few weeks back and he gave the board his report , he just hadn't realised we'd signed him yet. 

Come on , agree to disagree , there's no need to feud , we're all friends here ...

That is the whole point.  Conte was misquoted too.  He didn't as Nobly thinks, spend the whole season complaining about not having any influence on transfers.  He just made a silly joke 2 or 3 times as he tried to leave a press conference to avoid getting questions about who we were going to announce in the next 2 days.
Of course the motive for misquoting him was much the same.

9 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

The DWMH thing gets boring for me, but precisely because so much of this board seems to be about him. It's not even about defending him; he's a big boy. It's about being bored by the same digs over and over again. Maybe I'll pick a specific thing to disagree with him about.

Essentially Mark, for about the umpteenth time, has talked himself into the absurd corner in order to maintain an argument with me. Failing to realise the method he was opposing was reductio ad absurdum.  It isn't about dwmh, it is about mk really.

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