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Michael Tucker

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chara   
On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 4:18 AM, JaneB said:

 

Well if you both put it like that I suppose I have to understand.

But thank you, I learn so much coming on here.  Still gutted about the wonderful Cesc though and now it seems his move is being held up until we sign a replacement?

The trouble with me is I follow Chelsea with love not economics.

Ultimately most of us here follow Chelsea with love (and Whimsy!) and I fully understand your sadness at Cesc's departure. The harsh reality is that all players move on at some stage and even after so many years of following Chelsea I still haven't got over the loss of so many players! Osgood Bonetti Zola and so on... Back to an oft repeated quote.."Better a year too soon than a year too late:..at least he was able to leave on his own terms and profit from the move..a classy move  for the Club in their treatment of a loyal servant.

Appreciated his contribution to Chelsea and the game but could never quite "warm" to him..unlike JT as an obvious example.

 

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JaneB   
11 hours ago, chara said:

Ultimately most of us here follow Chelsea with love (and Whimsy!) and I fully understand your sadness at Cesc's departure. The harsh reality is that all players move on at some stage and even after so many years of following Chelsea I still haven't got over the loss of so many players! Osgood Bonetti Zola and so on... Back to an oft repeated quote.."Better a year too soon than a year too late:..at least he was able to leave on his own terms and profit from the move..a classy move  for the Club in their treatment of a loyal servant.

Appreciated his contribution to Chelsea and the game but could never quite "warm" to him..unlike JT as an obvious example.

 

Thank goodness Franco found his way back eventually and I hope he never leaves again.

I certainly 'warmed' to Cesc and I'm red hot to David Luiz.  Whilst I'm in awe of Eden Hazard as a player, my temperature keeps going up and down where he's concerned.

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GURJ SS   
21 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

He did.  When will Man U ever win 2 trophies in a season again?  When will they next get 81 points in a season?  The second highest win rate of any Man U manager since WW1.

It's the Alonso, Willian, Drogba Malouda thing, some people can look straight at something good and refuse to see it.

They wanted someone to be part of their club and build a legacy, he just built his own legacy. Jose isn't a team player.

Putting Drogba in the middle of those names doesn't stop the others from having flaws.

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1 hour ago, GURJ SS said:

Jose isn't a team player.

Ask any Chelsea player.  Or anyone from Inter or Porto or 80% of those at RM.
It is just another statement that comes from nowhere.

1 hour ago, GURJ SS said:

Putting Drogba in the middle of those names doesn't stop the others from having flaws.

Sure  - but that is usually the clue, isn't it.  The flaws people want to go endlessly on about are so rarely the actual flaws the players have.

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GURJ SS   
3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Ask any Chelsea player.  Or anyone from Inter or Porto or 80% of those at RM.
It is just another statement that comes from nowhere.

Sure  - but that is usually the clue, isn't it.  The flaws people want to go endlessly on about are so rarely the actual flaws the players have.

Then what keeps happening to him? He comes into a team and he surges for silverware and is Mr nice guy, then comes that time where the players and club start to turn. The first time he left Chelsea I'm sure he had the players on his side but not the club, I think Inter may be the only place he has ever left where it's been his choice since Porto; unless he really does plan short term and never wants to stay and make a long term legacy, hence my reason to believe he isn't a team player. A manager who is a team player wants to help build and sustain, while I will never doubt Jose's ability to build a team I'll always question if he has the intention of ever wanting to help sustain success at a club for 5-10 years.

You mentioned Alonso who week in week out gets whipped for pace, not saying he's a bad player as I've previously said he's a great footballer but he lacks a main ingredient for his position (especially one that requires large distances to be covered).

Willian I'm not sure you can defend, his attacking output is so rare that when he produces it I feel like he needs a MOTM award.

Malouda wasn't really a flaw but more the situation, he was brilliant at drifting between LW,LM,LAM,LCM between a fluid system depending on where other players were situated and the game's situation. His intelligence and positioning didn't require him to have blistering pace or crazy dribbling skills to be an effective player - Alonso would probably be better in that role than his current one and dare I say he'd be better than some of our current attacking players in advanced positions.

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9 hours ago, GURJ SS said:

Then what keeps happening to him? He comes into a team and he surges for silverware and is Mr nice guy, then comes that time where the players and club start to turn. The first time he left Chelsea I'm sure he had the players on his side but not the club, I think Inter may be the only place he has ever left where it's been his choice since Porto; unless he really does plan short term and never wants to stay and make a long term legacy, hence my reason to believe he isn't a team player. A manager who is a team player wants to help build and sustain, while I will never doubt Jose's ability to build a team I'll always question if he has the intention of ever wanting to help sustain success at a club for 5-10 years.

The implication here being that JM has just gone on a run of short term appointments - which is only true until you compare him with pretty much 98% of all managers.
3 years at RM is a long time.  2.5 years at Chelsea is longer than anyone else post RA except 1 guy.  2.5 years at Man U is longer than anyone post SAF and I think it is pretty safe to say much longer than anyone for the next 10 years.

Just one of the disconnects with reality that so many ranting about JM get into.

Malouda - quite right, a situation in the end, but that doesn't cover up of the nonsense on here about him for a year or two before he finally left.  They called him a coward - just how detached from reality do people need to get to justify their prejudices?

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GURJ SS   
On 1/13/2019 at 10:12 AM, Droy was my hero said:

The implication here being that JM has just gone on a run of short term appointments - which is only true until you compare him with pretty much 98% of all managers.
3 years at RM is a long time.  2.5 years at Chelsea is longer than anyone else post RA except 1 guy.  2.5 years at Man U is longer than anyone post SAF and I think it is pretty safe to say much longer than anyone for the next 10 years.

Just one of the disconnects with reality that so many ranting about JM get into.

Malouda - quite right, a situation in the end, but that doesn't cover up of the nonsense on here about him for a year or two before he finally left.  They called him a coward - just how detached from reality do people need to get to justify their prejudices?

But he still goes mad towards the end for some reason, like doesn't have a second wind.

I'm not sure if the fans had anything against him than they would have against any other player; I just think he was a Jorge and Mikel type of player who was so tactical people quickly forgot about what he done for the team as he wasn't in the MOTD highlights week in week out.

At the moment CHO is making me feel that he needs to make a statement to stay or declare he's leaving. At 18 years old the fans are putting it on the manager to play him over Willian and Pedro, I'm not their biggest fans but it's madness that CHO should just walk into the team because he is a youth product. There was a time I wanted Malouda replaced but not the way he was replaced, someone around his ability is a much better way to do it; at the moment it looks like the fans will blame Sarri, Willian and Pedro if he leaves, but while their situation is different to Malouda's it's still the same in being so fickle over what players have given to the club. I don't think the fans are prejudice as they are fickle.

Edited by GURJ SS

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2 minutes ago, GURJ SS said:

But he still goes mad towards the end for some reason, like doesn't have a second wind.

I think he can't be arsed to slow the team down and hope to rebuild over the next 3 years - for the simple reason that he knows that he can find a better team quicker than the team can turn around.  You are right Man U this season were not good enough - not good enough for JM.

I wonder what CA would do in his third season at Chelsea, PSG or RM?

Or Klopp after he wins a  trophies or hits 80+ points in the league?

Or Pochetinno who took 3 seasons to get 80+ points in the prem, and has he kicked on from there?  No they have gone backwards.
I think you can be pretty sure that JM would have had those teams winning stuff after 3 years or driven them so hard to try to do it that there would be a big fall out.

10 minutes ago, GURJ SS said:

At the moment CHO is making me feel that he needs to make a statement to stay or declare he's leaving.

At the moment CHO is doing fine.  Unlike RLC he has nothing to prove yet and plenty of time.  We can all be 100% relaxed about CHO - quite what fans are doing listen to the morons in the press, I don't know.  Have they not read newspapers before?

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GURJ SS   
2 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think he can't be arsed to slow the team down and hope to rebuild over the next 3 years - for the simple reason that he knows that he can find a better team quicker than the team can turn around.  You are right Man U this season were not good enough - not good enough for JM.

I wonder what CA would do in his third season at Chelsea, PSG or RM?

Or Klopp after he wins a  trophies or hits 80+ points in the league?

Or Pochetinno who took 3 seasons to get 80+ points in the prem, and has he kicked on from there?  No they have gone backwards.
I think you can be pretty sure that JM would have had those teams winning stuff after 3 years or driven them so hard to try to do it that there would be a big fall out.

At the moment CHO is doing fine.  Unlike RLC he has nothing to prove yet and plenty of time.  We can all be 100% relaxed about CHO - quite what fans are doing listen to the morons in the press, I don't know.  Have they not read newspapers before?

I'd agree with that, don't think he can be arsed to keep building on and on. I think he is one of the best, if he tweeks that part of his method and he's the best for me. I think one of his biggest flaws is he'll lost the dressing room instead of keeping it and lose the board; players play a big part, as he has found out the hard way a few times. Inter was perfect for him as players in Italy tend to not really care what their club says and listen to the manager more, JT and co were the same and it was rare to find since Fergie days.

But how long before our own fans cause a problem, at such a young age the fans are taking his side and it'll turn his head sooner or later towards Bayern. Naturally he'll start to think he deserves better and is better than the players starting and deserves more playing time, Bayern will look golden and Sarri will start to look like the bad guy who won't give the lad a chance; at 18 he needs to sit down and wait his time out and the fans need to acknowledge that Pedro and Willian are 30+ so won't be around when CHO is 20.

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1 minute ago, GURJ SS said:

I'd agree with that, don't think he can be arsed to keep building on and on. I think he is one of the best, if he tweeks that part of his method and he's the best for me.

No he is the best because he won't tweak that part of his method.  If you put in performance like Man U players did this season he will raise the stakes.  He will make it impossible for players to continue that way.  Sometimes they raise their game and become champions, and sometimes they don't and the whole thing collapses.
Tweak that and you get teams that just finish a nice safe 2nd each year.  You get Wenger.
I don't think it was ever a case of players going over his head.  I think it was always JM pushing the players harder than they were willing to go. 

I've talked about side by side rowing in eights before.  If you are ahead you stretch out and try to row as perfectly as possible.  If you are behind you all go flat out to catch up, with the very high risk that the whole rhythm and balance will go to pot and you will fall apart and lose by a massive distance.  It looks and feels horrible, and the crew is full of reciminations afterwards if it fails.  So only real winners make that effort.  

11 minutes ago, GURJ SS said:

But how long before our own fans cause a problem, 

Some of our fans are just plain idiots.  The paranoia about CHO is some of the daftest we have heard in decades.  Yes a few said the same about Salah - but many more said it about Forssell and Scott Sinclair.  These fans now are getting upset about goal.com articles.

Lets just try to work out what is happening, and not worry about the paranoid.

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