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Michael Tucker

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Dingus   
44 minutes ago, Never happy said:

2 weeks to save his job?

so we could be out of all cups by then, stupid decision..

as if Sunday wasn't bad enough, the board want to put the supporters through another humiliation for the world to see in the final..

just sack him now

What does that achieve? The same players will still be at the club.

They hired this man for a reason. When are we going to back him as opposed to just firing him and then getting someone else in to plug the gap? It does us no favours. We're never going to get continuity otherwise.

But ultimately, it seems to me that when the chips are down, people don't actually want continuity and aren't willing to put up with all the crap results that will come our way in order to get the desired result.

And I blame Roman and his scattergun approach to hiring/firing. Sure it was fun while we were winning. But because everyone has either caught up or overtaken us, plus we've actually run out of top managers to attract to come here, we're stuck in this state of limbo now.

It shouldn't have been like this, we had the potential to really kick on but we've squandered it big time.

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1 hour ago, Dingus said:

What does that achieve? The same players will still be at the club.

They hired this man for a reason. When are we going to back him as opposed to just firing him and then getting someone else in to plug the gap? It does us no favours. We're never going to get continuity otherwise.

But ultimately, it seems to me that when the chips are down, people don't actually want continuity and aren't willing to put up with all the crap results that will come our way in order to get the desired result.

And I blame Roman and his scattergun approach to hiring/firing. Sure it was fun while we were winning. But because everyone has either caught up or overtaken us, plus we've actually run out of top managers to attract to come here, we're stuck in this state of limbo now.

It shouldn't have been like this, we had the potential to really kick on but we've squandered it big time.


I'd be happy to have continuity, and be prepared for the odd hiccup on the way, if I could see progress was being made, but I don't see progress but regression. Actually, worse than regression, I see confusion. We can all find faults in any individual player if we wish, but our current back four, who one would generally describe as a fairly solid defensive unit, look as if they've never played together before and are learning their positions. A group of 13/14 year olds I could accept that from, but these are guys who have been together for a while and are seasoned professionals. Their individual and collective performances have dropped off a cliff edge. Is that down to the players or down to the instructions they're receiving from the coach?

As xCeleryx has said, if these 14/15 players he is trying to improve in training are continually failing on the pitch, why does he continue with those same 14/15 players week in week out... especially when a fair few are not the long-term future of the club? It's a form of dissonance on the part of Sarri; the players won't do as I tell them so I will continue with the same players until they do.

Are we really to believe that players that have won countless trophies, Premierships in many cases, and many of whom represent their countries are totally incapable of implementing the wishes of a coach? Maybe the messages coming from the coach are confused and confusing?

If Sarri is hell-bent on continuing with his 'there is no Plan B' philosophy, using the same core group of players, then I really can't see results getting any better this season. And what happens if, with different players next season, they still don't improve in training?

We do have too many average players... but we also have an average coach who I believe is totally out of his depth here.
 

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Dingus   
1 hour ago, Bob Singleton said:


I'd be happy to have continuity, and be prepared for the odd hiccup on the way, if I could see progress was being made, but I don't see progress but regression. Actually, worse than regression, I see confusion. We can all find faults in any individual player if we wish, but our current back four, who one would generally describe as a fairly solid defensive unit, look as if they've never played together before and are learning their positions. A group of 13/14 year olds I could accept that from, but these are guys who have been together for a while and are seasoned professionals. Their individual and collective performances have dropped off a cliff edge. Is that down to the players or down to the instructions they're receiving from the coach?

As xCeleryx has said, if these 14/15 players he is trying to improve in training are continually failing on the pitch, why does he continue with those same 14/15 players week in week out... especially when a fair few are not the long-term future of the club? It's a form of dissonance on the part of Sarri; the players won't do as I tell them so I will continue with the same players until they do.

Are we really to believe that players that have won countless trophies, Premierships in many cases, and many of whom represent their countries are totally incapable of implementing the wishes of a coach? Maybe the messages coming from the coach are confused and confusing?

If Sarri is hell-bent on continuing with his 'there is no Plan B' philosophy, using the same core group of players, then I really can't see results getting any better this season. And what happens if, with different players next season, they still don't improve in training?

We do have too many average players... but we also have an average coach who I believe is totally out of his depth here.
 

No-one was finding the system or instructions hard at the beginning of the season though were they?

I agree in essence regarding the playing the same players part but ultimately if he deems that those 14/15 players he uses are the best players at his disposal then what is he to do? Again, we're failing because of the board sanctioning the purchase of sub par players.

It was always going to be hard at the beginning. We clearly (or the players more importantly) don't have the stomach to stick with it when it gets tough.

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1 hour ago, Dingus said:

No-one was finding the system or instructions hard at the beginning of the season though were they?

That’s no different to the team which come up from the championship. There is usually one which flys out the blocks only to hit a brick wall after a few months when the pl teams work them out.  

 

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Dingus   

I'm just shocked that everyone is seemingly just ok with letting Sarri be hung out to dry on this one when it's the players that have continually downed tools on multiple occasions when we've hit a rough patch.

But again, I guess we've just been conditioned by previous years that if results don't go our way, we just sack and get someone else in. Sad really.

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3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:


1. I'd be happy to have continuity, and be prepared for the odd hiccup on the way, if I could see progress was being made, but I don't see progress but regression. Actually, worse than regression, I see confusion.

2. We can all find faults in any individual player if we wish, but our current back four, who one would generally describe as a fairly solid defensive unit, look as if they've never played together before and are learning their positions. A group of 13/14 year olds I could accept that from, but these are guys who have been together for a while and are seasoned professionals. Their individual and collective performances have dropped off a cliff edge. Is that down to the players or down to the instructions they're receiving from the coach?

3. As xCeleryx has said, if these 14/15 players he is trying to improve in training are continually failing on the pitch, why does he continue with those same 14/15 players week in week out... especially when a fair few are not the long-term future of the club? It's a form of dissonance on the part of Sarri; the players won't do as I tell them so I will continue with the same players until they do.

4. Are we really to believe that players that have won countless trophies, Premierships in many cases, and many of whom represent their countries are totally incapable of implementing the wishes of a coach? Maybe the messages coming from the coach are confused and confusing?

5. If Sarri is hell-bent on continuing with his 'there is no Plan B' philosophy, using the same core group of players, then I really can't see results getting any better this season. And what happens if, with different players next season, they still don't improve in training?
 

Sorry, chopped up to make it easier to reply. 

1. Although I see your point we aren’t really doing any worse than last season. We’re about par and for a completely new way of playing that isn’t the worst scenario one could have imagined. Yes we’ve had some shocking results lately but the 6-0 loss to City wasn’t because of the system, it was players switching off and making school boy errors defensively. Arguably 5 of their 6 goals lies squarely on us. If you disagree and think we are worse this year compared to last - then I’d say sometimes it has to get worse before it can get better. 

2. Our defensive unit has mostly been ok this season. It’s really only Bournemouth and City where they’ve been exposed and it wasn’t all down to the defense - the whole team switched off. So not sure I agree with that stance. In terms of the managers instructions, I think it’s clear as day they aren’t moving enough out on the pitch. Too much standing around waiting for what the player next to them will do. Having seen Sarri at Napoli previously that’s not how he sees isn’t playing the game. We also move the ball far too slowly and always go for the safe horizontal pass instead of the vertical one (which Napoli did very well). This has been a recurring problem with three of our last managers... Maybe even longer back then that. Sure we have changed players in this time period but somehow the mentality persists. 

3. Which players can he include in the core group? Christensen, Emerson, Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu. Those are his options. I don’t foresee either of them being able to turn things around. But as things are going with some of the senior players I’d have personally benched a few of them now. But I don’t have to risk my job, I can make that call from the comfort of my sofa. Long-term maybe the right move, but will Sarri he here to benefit from it? It’s a perspective that gets lost too often I think. Which manager will dare making bold calls for the future if a few bad results can get him the sack 7 months into the job? I think we are actively suppressing risk-taking or long-term outlooks with how we handle our managers. 

4. I think most our players are I’ll-suited for the style we want to play. That’s the result of the club completely lacking any coherent long-term strategy between the club, the playing staff and the manager. 

5. I think the no plan B is a valid argument now. We see that these set of players can’t play this style to any great effect. The time for plan B is now and then re-group and change the squad over the summer and we go again trying to implement Sarri-ball. 

If he is still not doing better halfway through next season it might be the right time to talk about alternatives. But for me it’s much too soon to do that now. 

Lets be honest, who thought Klopp would take Liverpool to a CL final and be in the running for league champions after his first season at Liverpool? I suspect none. Liverpool fans too called for his head. I don’t think they’re doing that anymore. Not saying Sarri will be a success, but I’m willing to give him time to show if he will. 

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2 hours ago, Dingus said:

 ...but ultimately if he deems that those 14/15 players he uses are the best players at his disposal then what is he to do?

And interestingly I haven't noticed anyone on here pushing for anyone else to start. Not evenCHO lately. Lots to drop though. 

Logicallly one has to blame the man advosing the club who to buy I'm the last two seasons.  We all know who that was.  Most of the better players are over 30, 4 or 5 greats have gone and we added Rudiger. 

The reasons we disappoint this year are precisely the same that we disappointed last year. 

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Sea foot   
16 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

And interestingly I haven't noticed anyone on here pushing for anyone else to start. Not evenCHO lately.

Probably because those sort of views get put down by the know it alls all too quickly.

Well I'll stick my head up and say that CHO and Ampedu should start imo. Are they too rough around the edges? More than likely but if they don't get time to play the system as Sarri sees it then those rough edges will never get worn off. 

I'm sure that the majority of fans expected this new "thing" to take some time to iron out so putting in a couple of youngsters in the side would not have had too much of a downside if you ask me.

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kratos   
18 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Sorry, chopped up to make it easier to reply. 

1. Although I see your point we aren’t really doing any worse than last season. We’re about par and for a completely new way of playing that isn’t the worst scenario one could have imagined. Yes we’ve had some shocking results lately but the 6-0 loss to City wasn’t because of the system, it was players switching off and making school boy errors defensively. Arguably 5 of their 6 goals lies squarely on us. If you disagree and think we are worse this year compared to last - then I’d say sometimes it has to get worse before it can get better. 

2. Our defensive unit has mostly been ok this season. It’s really only Bournemouth and City where they’ve been exposed and it wasn’t all down to the defense - the whole team switched off. So not sure I agree with that stance. In terms of the managers instructions, I think it’s clear as day they aren’t moving enough out on the pitch. Too much standing around waiting for what the player next to them will do. Having seen Sarri at Napoli previously that’s not how he sees isn’t playing the game. We also move the ball far too slowly and always go for the safe horizontal pass instead of the vertical one (which Napoli did very well). This has been a recurring problem with three of our last managers... Maybe even longer back then that. Sure we have changed players in this time period but somehow the mentality persists. 

3. Which players can he include in the core group? Christensen, Emerson, Hudson-Odoi and Ampadu. Those are his options. I don’t foresee either of them being able to turn things around. But as things are going with some of the senior players I’d have personally benched a few of them now. But I don’t have to risk my job, I can make that call from the comfort of my sofa. Long-term maybe the right move, but will Sarri he here to benefit from it? It’s a perspective that gets lost too often I think. Which manager will dare making bold calls for the future if a few bad results can get him the sack 7 months into the job? I think we are actively suppressing risk-taking or long-term outlooks with how we handle our managers. 

4. I think most our players are I’ll-suited for the style we want to play. That’s the result of the club completely lacking any coherent long-term strategy between the club, the playing staff and the manager. 

5. I think the no plan B is a valid argument now. We see that these set of players can’t play this style to any great effect. The time for plan B is now and then re-group and change the squad over the summer and we go again trying to implement Sarri-ball. 

If he is still not doing better halfway through next season it might be the right time to talk about alternatives. But for me it’s much too soon to do that now. 

Lets be honest, who thought Klopp would take Liverpool to a CL final and be in the running for league champions after his first season at Liverpool? I suspect none. Liverpool fans too called for his head. I don’t think they’re doing that anymore. Not saying Sarri will be a success, but I’m willing to give him time to show if he will. 

I get what you're saying Ghost, we have been too trigger happy with the managers over the years.

A few times it has been justified, e.g. AVB and Scholari.

We are a good few years behind our rivals now because of the amount of money we have wasted on duds, selling off the good ones and not being able to obtain players of equal quality as replacements.

Because of our utter stupidity and lack of urgency in too many transfer Windows we are now left with a squad of players which I have no idea what they are meant for.

I don't blame Sarri for the current squad he inherited because that same squad finished 5th last season. But I do blame him for trying to make it do something it is not capable of doing. The sensible thing would be to have looked at the current team and establish what their strengths are and how to minimise their limitations.

Because he's failed to do that we are now in the position we are in and thre is no sight of where it's going to turn around.

His constant insistence that Jorginho be the driving force of this set up no matter what is actually hurting Jorginho now and the guy is crumbling under this pressure.

Klopp and Pep are both younger than Sarri and have success behind them.

Even Conte had success before he came here.

At 60 years you have to ask where is the long term plan with Sarri? How old will he be by the time this comes together? 64, 65?

That is to say if it ever does.

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36 minutes ago, Sea foot said:

Probably because those sort of views get put down by the know it alls all too quickly.

Well I'll stick my head up and say that CHO and Ampedu should start imo. Are they too rough around the edges? More than likely but if they don't get time to play the system as Sarri sees it then those rough edges will never get worn off. 

I'm sure that the majority of fans expected this new "thing" to take some time to iron out so putting in a couple of youngsters in the side would not have had too much of a downside if you ask me.

I agree. At this point, when the 14/15 aren't working, try something different - surely Ampadu and CHO are in a better position to learn 'Sarri-ball' and will have the energy for the desired high press?

At this point, what's the worst that could happen? We lose 7-0? 

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