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YDroy, I’ve been supporting this club for years, as have my family (albeit in pain of sleeping in the shed - not the Shed) and originally did so to prove to son 2 that you can be passionate about a club that is unlikely to win, given that winning is a fleeting thing and losing is the normal way of the world. If that makes sense (which, after a bad day and a couple of scotches is perhaps asking a bit). But whatever ... I’ve had so much fun since the 90s watching the Chelsea, that it’s all been worth it.  It is true: our management is ****. But we still do well. So what is the secret? Interested in your views, and those of others: what is our USP? Why are we so damn good, despite the odds?

Edited by blue moon

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JaneB   
1 hour ago, Ham said:

100% agree with this.

I've made it very clear that I'm unhappy with Sarri but as much as I dislike what he is doing, and if you gave me the option of replacing our board with the appropriate people in the right positions including a director of football or getting rid of Sarri tomorrow, I'd see them gone first. 

100% agree with this.

1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

And yet ridiculously successful in terms of trophies.  Funny that.  The last 8 years have been incredible, a CL trophy where we finally found some of the luck we had missed out on in previous years.  A complete rebuild of the squad.  2 wonderful PL titles.  4 other cups.   6 managers all described as being total rubbish plus Hiddink.  Emenalo, possibly the most vilified man at the club since Grant handling the player scouting.

What is it going to take to please?
If only we were Spurs and Liverpool who really know how to be a big club.

(The first 8 years weren't bad either).

Yes of course but it's all going pear shaped now.  We never got another DOF in.  Steve Holland left (a huge loss).  I thought Conte was the answer to everything but we know what happened there.  And whoever thought Sarri was a good appointment?  Roman is never seen.  There was talk of his son taking over who I thought was a big fan but nothing doing there.  Marina might be a wonderful business woman and accountant but that's it.  And we keep signing players who aren't up to it, sending hundreds out on loan and not giving some gifted youngsters a fair go. It's all a mess and been hopelessly handled.

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29 minutes ago, blue moon said:

YDroy, I’ve been supporting this club for years, as have my family (albeit in pain of sleeping in the shed - not the Shed) and originally did so to prove to son 2 that you can be passionate about a club that is unlikely to win, given that winning is a fleeting thing and losing is the normal way of the world. If that makes sense (which, after a bad day and a couple of scotches is perhaps asking a bit). But whatever ... I’ve had so much fun since the 90s watching the Chelsea, that it’s all been worth it.  It is true: our management is ****. But we still do well. So what is the secret? Interested in your views, and those of others: what is our USP? Why are we so damn good, despite the odds?

1. We sacked bad managers too quickly, not too slowly.
2.  We bought many and full-priced when players were cheap.  2003-06, and filled our boots in 2011-14.
3.  We brought in top managers only when the team was ready - anybody to ride the horses when training, Lester Piggott when they were ready to win stuff.
4.  The behind the scenes management is excellent despite the reputation (took me a long while to work this out).  Emenalo and de Visser were brilliant (I have been extremely insulting about de Visser in the past - I was wrong).  
5.  The JM inspired belief of 2004-2012 was maintained through a handful of wonderfully committed players - JT, Cech, SFL, Drogba and a number who bought into it (Ash, Ballack, Malouda...).
6.  The goal is always to get a PL winning team asap, but only when possible.  No Liverpool style messing about getting slowly better.  Win this season or rebuild this season and never try both.  Which is why we cleared the decks so aggressively in 2013/14 (Cech Lampard, Mata, as well as KdB, Salah, Lukaku).  And brought in Lester Piggott in 2013 and 2016.
7.  Plenty of special players.  Hard to imagine us without just one of the following: Cech, Gallas, RC, JT, Maka, SFL, Drogba, Robben, Duff, Ballack, Mikel, Anelka, Malouda, Ash, Cahill , Ramires, Willian, Hazard, Costa, Fabregas,  Kante  (add a few of your own).

 

2 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Yes of course but it's all going pear shaped now.  We never got another DOF in.  Steve Holland left (a huge loss).  I thought Conte was the answer to everything but we know what happened there

Conte was the answer for 2016/17 when the only problem was how to get that group of good players another PL title before they get too old.
Conte was a complete disaster for 2017/18 when he insisted on patching up a done team with numbers when we should have gone straight into re-build mode then.  (And he kept wanting to go to RM).
And the Conte vs club rows meant that no proper rebuilding happened other than Kepa, Rudiger and perhaps Pulisic.  But there is a team of people at the club that can cover for Emenalo if they can stop the manager buying players out of Serie A.

I don't see it as pear shaped.  I just see one wave over, and the club planning for the next.  We could consecutively finance teams in 2004-10.  Only City can do that now.  

We are a yo-yo club.  But if it is up to 1st, and down to 5th or 6th, I have no problems with that.

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JaneB   
32 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Conte was the answer for 2016/17 when the only problem was how to get that group of good players another PL title before they get too old.

Conte was a complete disaster for 2017/18 when he insisted on patching up a done team with numbers when we should have gone straight into re-build mode then.  (And he kept wanting to go to RM).
And the Conte vs club rows meant that no proper rebuilding happened other than Kepa, Rudiger and perhaps Pulisic.  But there is a team of people at the club that can cover for Emenalo if they can stop the manager buying players out of Serie A.

I don't see it as pear shaped.  I just see one wave over, and the club planning for the next.  We could consecutively finance teams in 2004-10.  Only City can do that now.  

We are a yo-yo club.  But if it is up to 1st, and down to 5th or 6th, I have no problems with that.

Who is this team of people?  And I didn't think it was the manager buying the players now anyway but those on high who know nothing about who is needed.

The club aren't planning anything.  They're just about to get rid of another manager who they should never have employed in the first place.  They are so unprofessional and we are a laughing stock.  I've been critical of Hazard in the past but I wouldn't blame him for leaving this circus at the end of the season.  

Oh and I don't want to be a yo-yo club.  Strive to be the best always, in every department.

 

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56 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Yes of course but it's all going pear shaped now. 

Certainly on the field it is, yes. And we don't see any activity off the field, in terms of structural changes, to suggest that anything positive is about to happen, either.  

56 minutes ago, JaneB said:

I thought Conte was the answer to everything but we know what happened there. 

I get what you're saying, Jane, but I wonder if we really know 'what happened there'? Clearly there was a breakdown of sorts between Conte and Marina, re: who we should buy (and how many?), but was that the extent of the problems?

 

56 minutes ago, JaneB said:

And whoever thought Sarri was a good appointment? 

Not many here iirc, and not many in the media, either. So, why?

56 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Roman is never seen.

Well, as we all know, Roman lost his UK visa, and hasn't been granted a new one, so that's understandable for the most part. You'd have to imagine that he stays in contact with the Board, though, surely?

56 minutes ago, JaneB said:

There was talk of his son taking over who I thought was a big fan but nothing doing there. 

Atm, Jane, it's all down to that visa, as far as I can tell. 

56 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Marina might be a wonderful business woman and accountant but that's it.  And we keep signing players who aren't up to it, sending hundreds out on loan and not giving some gifted youngsters a fair go. It's all a mess and been hopelessly handled.

This.

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19 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Who is this team of people?  And I didn't think it was the manager buying the players now anyway but those on high who know nothing about who is needed.

The club aren't planning anything.  They're just about to get rid of another manager who they should never have employed in the first place.  They are so unprofessional and we are a laughing stock.  I've been critical of Hazard in the past but I wouldn't blame him for leaving this circus at the end of the season.  

Oh and I don't want to be a yo-yo club.  Strive to be the best always, in every department.

 

There are dozens of scouts.  No idea who any of them are, but they are not part of the JM, Conte or Sarri coaching team.  Hopefully after people like Arnesen and Mike Frord made fools of themselves in the past, they keep very quiet.

Certainly for 3 windows Jan 17-18 we had a very very weird policy.  We had barely any fit players at all in September 17, and about 7 or 8 too many 6 months later.  Costa went (certainly a manager decision) and 5 players out of Italy arrived.  Change of policy, change of target age group, change of quantity, change of quality (we bought players we knew weren't good enough - not rising talents, but fading ones).

It was just as if some alien had crept into the body of Emenalo and taken over.  Except that Emenalo moved out, and the conflict was never Conte vs Emenalo, it was Conte Marina.

What is going on now?  Well it seems pretty clear what went on 2011-14 as the club rebuilt.  Yet very few people here seem to recognise that (and no one at all in the football media).  

YO-YO is fine.  We can't afford to be a consistent top 2 team.  I'd much rather have some volatility - some top days and some bad ones.  I don't want eternal Wenger standards.   I don't want to be Spurs, when everyone applauds when they come third but the never win anything.  I'm happy to swap several 5ths or 6ths if we win the odd PL. 

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3 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

And yet ridiculously successful in terms of trophies.  Funny that.  The last 8 years have been incredible...

We've qualified to the CL by league position 4/8. I wouldn't call that incredible. I wouldn't even call that par. 

We have won titles (2) and cups yes - not denying that and incredibly thankful for it. But it's all been done short term and for each re-build we've seen it's been worse than the previous one. The last one (2015-2018) was awful all things considered. 

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11 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

We've qualified to the CL by league position 4/8. I wouldn't call that incredible. I wouldn't even call that par. 

Incredible for me.

14 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

But it's all been done short term and for each re-build we've seen it's been worse than the previous one.

2013 to 2017 wasn't really short term.  Plenty of fun there.  We build we win, we rebuild.  Meanwhile Spurs and Liverpool are still building.  

15/16 wasn't a rebuild,just a retweak, and we came back with the next high flying manager and team to win.

WE have only had 2 rebuilds since RA, excluding the Ranieri year.  04/06, then again 11/14.
I'm happy to put up with 19/22.  Just a shame it couldn't start when Conte was here.

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13 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Who is this team of people?  And I didn't think it was the manager buying the players now anyway but those on high who know nothing about who is needed.

The club aren't planning anything.  They're just about to get rid of another manager who they should never have employed in the first place.  They are so unprofessional and we are a laughing stock.  I've been critical of Hazard in the past but I wouldn't blame him for leaving this circus at the end of the season.  

Oh and I don't want to be a yo-yo club.  Strive to be the best always, in every department.

 

There are dozens of scouts.  No idea who any of them are, but they are not part of the JM, Conte or Sarri coaching team.  Hopefully after people like Arnesen and Mike Frord made fools of themselves in the past, they keep very quiet.

Certainly for 3 windows Jan 17-18 we had a very very weird policy.  We had barely any fit players at all in September 17, and about 7 or 8 too many 6 months later.  Costa went (certainly a manager decision) and 5 players out of Italy arrived.  Change of policy, change of target age group, change of quantity, change of quality (we bought players we knew weren't good enough - not rising talents, but fading ones).

It was just as if some alien had crept into the body of Emenalo and taken over.  Except that Emenalo moved out, and the conflict was never Conte vs Emenalo, it was Conte Marina.

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11 hours ago, JaneB said:

Yes of course but it's all going pear shaped now. 

Suppose it'll be of no surprise to anyone here that I see this in much the same way as DWMH. I'd agree in a sense Jane that it looks to be going 'pear shaped' now, but then I've also thought that and certainly read that here and heard it said around the ground every few years since 2007, and somehow going pear 'shaped' has never quite become being 'pear shaped'; the next title or at least trophy, the next upturn in form, the next brilliant player has often felt very far away in the moment but has always arrived relatively quickly. Especially when compared to the clubs it now feels like we have fallen behind.

It's happened often enough for me to have reached the conclusion it is not circumtantial. It is by design. 

11 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I don't see it as pear shaped.  I just see one wave over, and the club planning for the next.  We could consecutively finance teams in 2004-10.  Only City can do that now.  

We are a yo-yo club.  But if it is up to 1st, and down to 5th or 6th, I have no problems with that.

Yes; if you're willing to put aside slight disagreements over the terminology, I see us as a club that is all about winning rather than competing. If we are aren't going to be winning, then what we will be doing is planning to be winning very soon, rather than trying to stay in and around the chasing pack. I think it is a very good point that DWMH makes that is glossed over; our stratgey as a club leaves us with fallow seasons, but also means we actually win trophies. Liverpool and Spurs take a different strategy; it has its merits and they are in a healthy state, but they each have sod all in the trophy cabinet. City don't really need a strategy, same way we didn't 2003-2007; they have money.

10 hours ago, JaneB said:

 Oh and I don't want to be a yo-yo club.  Strive to be the best always, in every department.

I wouldn't either. But it's not like we have much of a choice. We cannot go toe-to-toe with City 24/7 and 365 days a year, same way the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool could not do that with us when Abramovich arrived. We've found a way to pick and choose when we do go up against them. I sincerely doubt anyone would choose to not be the best if being the best was an option.

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