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Vinod   

 

14 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

And yet ridiculously successful in terms of trophies.  Funny that.  The last 8 years have been incredible, a CL trophy where we finally found some of the luck we had missed out on in previous years.  A complete rebuild of the squad.  2 wonderful PL titles.  4 other cups.   6 managers all described as being total rubbish plus Hiddink.  Emenalo, possibly the most vilified man at the club since Grant handling the player scouting.

What is it going to take to please?
If only we were Spurs and Liverpool who really know how to be a big club.

(The first 8 years weren't bad either).

 

The reality is that over the last 2 years we have deteriorated and the the other two clubs have improved. Both Spurs and Liverpool are nailed on to reach the top 4; this after Spurs have cut down on transfer spending. We huffed and puffed to 5th place last season and now we are rapidly declining. We don't have an away goal in the league in 2019; we have been beaten in a cup at home by Man Utd who ,frankly, are average. A lot of fans want a player clear-out. That's going to happen if we like it or not. Not because players have been downing their tools, but because certain regulars the first team are on the wrong side of 30 and some regulars have no place in the first team of a top team. Kovacic, Willian, Jorginho, Azpi (v 2019), Alonso and Pedro are all quality squad players. Definitely not world beaters. You can get away with one or two decent squad players in a team; but you really need proper top class first team players to win the title. Or your best attacking players need to keep the score meter running. 

On 19/02/2019 at 0:15 PM, The_Ghost said:

I’m certain Buck is one of the persons at the club who makes that call. Together with Marina and some of the other people at the club who pretty much knows nothing about the game. 

We are ridiculously poorly run. 15 years and Roman hasn’t even managed to build a proper organisation at the top. 

Have you considered that your objectives as a fan might differ from Roman's objective as an owner? Maybe this is the organisation he wants. Maybe he doesn't care about chopping and changing managers. Maybe he is in for a long run. Or maybe he is looking to sell and needs to keep the books under control. I don't like the management any more than you; but fans of most clubs would kill to find an owner who has invested as much as Roman. Not just in players - but the training grounds, the academy, the scouting network, community engagements, women's football, branding and marketing, commercial partnerships, etc. That cannot happen without proper organisation at the top.

In the 15 year time frame you mention we are joint top with Man Utd in PL titles, we are one of the 3 English clubs that won CL and we have won the most FA Cups. That's success.

I manage a business where the labour pool while talented, are uneducated. It's not easy dealing with the artistically inclined. Conventional management methods do not work with them. They tend to be emotionally volatile. When you couple that with extroversion, it is a ticking time-bomb. It becomes literally unmanageable when the player in question does not take responsibility for this actions. I don't think the board is anywhere qualified to decide where the fault lies when it comes to football. That is where the gap is. What we need is a CEO who has been in the same position at another football club. That will ease the pain. I suspect Marina is a placeholder and not a fixture. 

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2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Yes; if you're willing to put aside slight disagreements over the terminology, I see us as a club that is all about winning rather than competing. If we are aren't going to be winning, then what we will be doing is planning to be winning very soon, rather than trying to stay in and around the chasing pack. I think it is a very good point that DWMH makes that is glossed over; our stratgey as a club leaves us with fallow seasons, but also means we actually win trophies. Liverpool and Spurs take a different strategy; it has its merits and they are in a healthy state, but they each have sod all in the trophy cabinet. City don't really need a strategy, same way we didn't 2003-2007; they have money.

Well put.  And if people are going to understand this we need to create language that describes it well.

19 minutes ago, Vinod said:

The reality is that over the last 2 years we have deteriorated and the the other two clubs have improved. Both Spurs and Liverpool are nailed on to reach the top 4; this after Spurs have cut down on transfer spending. .........

Well Spurs took a big step downwards last season.  City have dropped a little this season.  I don't see it as black and white.  More over neither team are going to beat City by the end of the season.  Take your choice, do you want the 3rd, 4th with the occasional 2nd and no cups?  Or do you want to occasionally win things.

22 minutes ago, Vinod said:

I manage a business where the labour pool while talented, are uneducated. It's not easy dealing with the artistically inclined. Conventional management methods do not work with them. They tend to be emotionally volatile. When you couple that with extroversion, it is a ticking time-bomb. It becomes literally unmanageable ........

So assuming you manage them well, what are the skills you need for that?  Are they the same as the artistic skills of your employees?  Do you have to have done the job to manage them?

I ask because many years ago I was a financial trader, and absolutely the worst people managers of financial traders are financial traders.

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This game is huge for us, Europa league is now our only realistic chance of getting in to the CL next season (and we need to get back in asap, we really don't want to go 3 out of 4 seasons out of the CL). I feel we'll get through this round, but if we stick with Sarri I don't fancy our chances getting any further. The club have to act.

I'd predict the team for this match, but it's barely predicting anymore, it's just copy and pasting... 

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asvaberg   

Caballero

Azpi  - Cristensen - Luiz - Palmieri

Kante

RLC - Willian

Hazard - Giroud - CHO

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1 hour ago, Vinod said:

 

 

The reality is that over the last 2 years we have deteriorated and the the other two clubs have improved. Both Spurs and Liverpool are nailed on to reach the top 4; this after Spurs have cut down on transfer spending. We huffed and puffed to 5th place last season and now we are rapidly declining. We don't have an away goal in the league in 2019; we have been beaten in a cup at home by Man Utd who ,frankly, are average. A lot of fans want a player clear-out. That's going to happen if we like it or not. Not because players have been downing their tools, but because certain regulars the first team are on the wrong side of 30 and some regulars have no place in the first team of a top team. Kovacic, Willian, Jorginho, Azpi (v 2019), Alonso and Pedro are all quality squad players. Definitely not world beaters. You can get away with one or two decent squad players in a team; but you really need proper top class first team players to win the title. Or your best attacking players need to keep the score meter running. 

Have you considered that your objectives as a fan might differ from Roman's objective as an owner? Maybe this is the organisation he wants. Maybe he doesn't care about chopping and changing managers. Maybe he is in for a long run. Or maybe he is looking to sell and needs to keep the books under control. I don't like the management any more than you; but fans of most clubs would kill to find an owner who has invested as much as Roman. Not just in players - but the training grounds, the academy, the scouting network, community engagements, women's football, branding and marketing, commercial partnerships, etc. That cannot happen without proper organisation at the top.

In the 15 year time frame you mention we are joint top with Man Utd in PL titles, we are one of the 3 English clubs that won CL and we have won the most FA Cups. That's success.

I manage a business where the labour pool while talented, are uneducated. It's not easy dealing with the artistically inclined. Conventional management methods do not work with them. They tend to be emotionally volatile. When you couple that with extroversion, it is a ticking time-bomb. It becomes literally unmanageable when the player in question does not take responsibility for this actions. I don't think the board is anywhere qualified to decide where the fault lies when it comes to football. That is where the gap is. What we need is a CEO who has been in the same position at another football club. That will ease the pain. I suspect Marina is a placeholder and not a fixture. 

Absolutely - I have definitely considered whether my objectives are different from Roman. But in the end, I think we both want Chelsea to be winning long-term. 

My comment about not being able to build a solid platform at the top of the club still stands. Or more precise, I still stand by that comment. 

We don't have any football people at the board or in a senior decision-making role. That isn't great for building a solid foundation where the football, players and quality is the primary focus. Look at the biggest clubs in Europe - they are run by serious football men, men who have a long history in the game and knows what it takes to be successful consistently. It was easy when Roman had the monetary advantage, his shortcomings are becoming painfully obvious now that advantage is gone. 

He basically knows nothing about the game or how to build a successful club and the organisation around it. I don't care about his objectives, if you can't even build a solid foundation at the top how the hell are you going to steer the ship? It's a complete disconnect at all levels of this club - and we are seeing the results of that now. It's been obvious (to me) that this was the direction we as a club were going. I think I first realised this at around 2010/2011 and since then it becomes clearer by each passing season. Only one man to blame for that (despite all his investments).

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17 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

(Roman)  He basically knows nothing about the game or how to build a successful club and the organisation around it.

Just a lucky amateur?

 

18 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

I think I first realised this at around 2010/2011 a

I think we all thought we were going nowhere in 10/11.  He sacked CA, and we spent millions on proven but very young talent across Europe outbidding everyone else.  It seemed very pointless and haphazard.  Then in 2013 he hired Lester Piggott who insisted on Costa and a few final pieces and the horse raced to the top rapidly.

I got it wrong in 10/11.  Turns out there was a very deep well thought out masterplan.  Took me a long time to realise.  I won't be writing off Chelsea that quickly again.  Nor should you.

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Vinod   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

Well Spurs took a big step downwards last season.  City have dropped a little this season.  I don't see it as black and white.  More over neither team are going to beat City by the end of the season.  Take your choice, do you want the 3rd, 4th with the occasional 2nd and no cups?  Or do you want to occasionally win things.

But its not really a part of a master plan, is it? Performing poorly for a couple of seasons to win. What we are doing is sacrificing stability in football management to produce immediate results. The only places where there is stability are areas that do not directly affect what happens on the pitch. To put it in business terms, its having a high employee turn over in the line function while the support functions remain stable. It clearly points to a poor work culture. 

 

Quote

So assuming you manage them well, what are the skills you need for that?  Are they the same as the artistic skills of your employees?  Do you have to have done the job to manage them?

I ask because many years ago I was a financial trader, and absolutely the worst people managers of financial traders are financial traders.

 

Personally I do not think the manager needs the skills of the employee. However, apart from certain obvious managerial traits, what separates a good manager from a mediocre one is a deep understanding of what the final result should look like, a clear understanding of what it takes to achieve the result and an ability to make course corrections when you see the team not being able to deliver.

Secondly, communication needs to be done differently. In my case, my most experienced employees have work experience that exceeds my age. There is a certain sense of ego that creeps in. Add the eccentricities. The best thing to do in such cases is be result oriented. At least that's what worked for me.

The toughest ones to handle are those who are critical to the product AND have skills that are hard to procure in the labour market. You need to forgive small errors. Because you cannot improve work etiquette and social skills of such people. You need to be very tactful in getting them to see your way. If they don't you need to decide if their position is untenable.

In business school, a professor told us about the textile mills in 70s India. They used to have a 'Dye master'. There would be only one in every company. He would have a keen understanding of colours and a knack to mix them. No formula. He would mix colours like an artist. This person would end up being more important than a managing director. Everyone in the company would change, except the master. The salary would be in line with his pay grade, but he would get other liberties. Leaves, flexible hours - no questions asked.

I think this has parallels in football. You have a set of players whose skills cannot be replicated. You can train a person to be a footballer. But you can't really train a person to be Hazard. So when it comes to misbehaviour (say, downing the tools) from top talent where do you draw the line? What do you have other than a signed contract to pull them up? Fans will talk about players earning xyz pounds and therefore having a responsibility to do their best. But who are the players accountable to? They sure as hell aren't accountable to the fans. It's not like the board did a 360 degree feedback session before renewing Alonso's contract. So it all comes down to the manager. The best managers have been those with a clear path to success and ability to motivate players to think beyond football as a profession. The best managers have created club legends. That's what Jose did in his prime, thats what Ferguson did, Ancelotti at Milan, Rijkaard and Guardiola at Barca. We might have won trophies in the last 5 years, but honestly, are we going to talk about Hazard and Costa with the same sense of reverence reserved for JT, Lamps, Drogba and Cech?

Coming back to Sarri, unless there is more to him than meets the eye, I think he will struggle. You need to be flexible in your approach when you deal with elite talent.

 

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Hopefully  a few changes  heard Loftus cheek is available and  hope gets a start same for odoi . Emerson and Zappacosta at full back as Dave looks tired and alonso is out of form . Christeson and Rudiger at  C.B. 

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Quite a lot riding on this game now. Not sure that Sarri has the balls to risk CHO from the beginning, even if its the easiest way to get the support back onside.

What I would be surprised to see, is Kovacic coming on for Barkley after an hour :-)

Expect that RLC will probably start and finish...

 

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42 minutes ago, McCreadie said:

Not sure that Sarri has the balls to risk CHO from the beginning, even if its the easiest way to get the support back onside.

Why does a certain song about the erstwhile leader of a large European country keep running through my head?

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