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Michael Tucker

Frank Lampard Appointed Chelsea Head Coach

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Sciatika   

I know I am hopelessly out of date but, it seems to me, that we should be marking man to man for the prime targets along with some zonal marking to deal with the spaces especially with the smaller more lightweight players.

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3 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I know I am hopelessly out of date but, it seems to me, that we should be marking man to man for the prime targets along with some zonal marking to deal with the spaces especially with the smaller more lightweight players.

Can someone tell me what other clubs are doing in the Prem this season.
I had presumed that VAR would rule out man4man marking as it relies too much on holding the opponent.  So I presumed Sarri was ahead of the curve on that last season (albeit that Zouma, Tomori and Tammy weren't here last season).   

But that is just prediction - what is actually happening?

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Sciatika   

I see both, sometimes even in the same team. Liverpool do both. I am talking about set-piece marking not marking in open play. I was taught to play as a defender decades ago. At that time, man-marking was the norm. Man-marking does not require that you even touch the opposition let alone hold them. However, generally, you do tend to have a bit of contact. The trick with man-marking is to put pressure on the attacker generally by getting in front of them or goal side. Most attackers had the same trick and so there would, typically, be physical contact, but not necessarily holding or fouling because that leads to pens especially nowadays when plays fall at the slightest touch. But then, I thought the Wijnaldum challenge that led to the FK before the second LFC goal was just a coming together. As I say, I may be out of date. Actually, often you don't need to touch the other player. The pressure is enough. The problem with man-marking that you do not mark the spaces. That makes it possible under man marking for a quick attacker to get away from the defender and get to the ball unchallenged by running into space. So, I think, what teams tend to do is man-mark the key players and zonal mark the spaces. Chelsea do not seem to be doing that.

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20 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

I see both, sometimes even in the same team.

Thanks.

21 minutes ago, Sciatika said:

The problem with man-marking that you do not mark the spaces. That makes it possible under man marking for a quick attacker to get away from the defender and get to the ball unchallenged by running into space. So, I think, what teams tend to do is man-mark the key players and zonal mark the spaces. Chelsea do not seem to be doing that.

We certainly saw a lot of grabbing last year or two, and as far as I can see that has disappeared this season.  
I'm not sure we have enough tall players to man mark and Zonal mark.  

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19 hours ago, jangz said:

Individual mistakes are letting us down again and again.. :(.. especially in big games.. plus I think with SFL as was in his career nothing will come easy or with luck.. carry on gaffa.. tide will turn..

More like bad defending which has led to zero clean sheets from the first 6 games. If we'd had 3 or even 2 clean sheets we'd be much closer to Liverpool on the table and certainly within the top 3. Set piece defending has been consistently very poor in every game under Lampard (preseason included). The good news is it can be largely fixed on the training ground. Also, little tactical tweaks & organizational adjusting can make the team harder to break down in open play. 

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10 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Can someone tell me what other clubs are doing in the Prem this season.
I had presumed that VAR would rule out man4man marking as it relies too much on holding the opponent.  So I presumed Sarri was ahead of the curve on that last season (albeit that Zouma, Tomori and Tammy weren't here last season).   

But that is just prediction - what is actually happening?

The key to zonal defending is awareness and control over your zonal assignment or 'space'. The player should dominate their 'area'. Alonso's slow reaction betrays the fact that he wasn't aware of the danger lurking in his zone. His starting position in his zone was wrong and left too much space for Firmino to attack and no way for him to defend the play. Again, the good news is this stuff can be improved on the training ground and in the  film room.

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kev61   
47 minutes ago, MikelBlue said:

The key to zonal defending is awareness and control over your zonal assignment or 'space'. The player should dominate their 'area'. Alonso's slow reaction betrays the fact that he wasn't aware of the danger lurking in his zone. His starting position in his zone was wrong and left too much space for Firmino to attack and no way for him to defend the play. Again, the good news is this stuff can be improved on the training ground and in the  film room.

Zonal marking is a  disaster,is this what you have to learn to get your coaching badge? - I don't know -Zonal marking, Var,kids aren't old enough,paying millions for duds,players wages,agents the whole game is going to hell in a hand cart and I can barely watch motd unless we have had a good game.

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26 minutes ago, kev61 said:

Zonal marking is a  disaster,is this what you have to learn to get your coaching badge? - I don't know -Zonal marking, Var,kids aren't old enough,paying millions for duds,players wages,agents the whole game is going to hell in a hand cart and I can barely watch motd unless we have had a good game.

For the most part, the personnel on hand in connection with the rule changes (holding in the box) explains why the team employs zonal marking. When your midfield trio are midget sized (kante, Jorginho, kovacic) and/ or nor the most physical (contrast to a midfield of Lampard, Ballack, Mikel, - all over 6'2" plus Essien who was a rock with great leaping ability), I'm afraid that zonal marking is the best option for Chelsea at the moment.

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kev61   
1 minute ago, MikelBlue said:

For the most part, the personnel on hand in connection with the rule changes (holding in the box) explains why the team employs zonal marking. When your midfield trio are midget sized (kante, Jorginho, kovacic) and/ or nor the most physical (contrast to a midfield of Lampard, Ballack, Mikel, - all over 6'2" plus Essien who was a rock with great leaping ability), I'm afraid that zonal marking is the best option for Chelsea at the moment.

It's quite simple match your big players with there's, are you saying we have too many players that can hold a lilliput passport?

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1 minute ago, kev61 said:

It's quite simple match your big players with there's, are you saying we have too many players that can hold a lilliput passport?

It's not that simple especially given we don't have many big players outside our CBs and CF. Then you have a player like Alonso who is not the most aware defensively - generally speaking. This is not Chelsea under Jose Mourinho that was built for physical contact and aerial battles. Teams with shorter / non-physical players tend to defend set pieces with zonal marking like Man City, Barca, etc. The good news is those teams are winners thus zonal marking is not an excuse for conceding goals from set pieces week in, week out. 

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