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Michael Tucker

Frank Lampard Appointed Chelsea Head Coach

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Ham   
46 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Rip it up and start again yes.  Give that massive job to Frank - crazy (though it seems to be happening).

Vialli had Bates and Hutchinson together planning the team, and a mass of highly experienced pros to manage.  The job was simply to avoid upsetting Bates (which is where Gullitt went wrong) or the players (where Vialli went wrong).  The rest of the coaching staff did not change.
The team won cups and games when it was up for it, and lost games when they weren't - strongly hinting that the playing staff were better than the manager (and the opposite to last season where we beat almost all the teams in the bottom half consistently).

Vialli had to coach 20 top pros.  The next guy has to manager 60, of which 5 are top pros.  
Vialli took a team up a couple of places and 10 points for one year (but not his second).  To advance from 3rd place and EL winners, the next guy would have to improve by 20 points or win the CL.  
The job now is far far far tougher.

Both had had quite a bit of time coaching at their clubs, with Zidane actually being Technical director for a while.  (people think they were pulled of the street - but just read the wikipedia articles).  They both worked with an established coaching team, and had experienced football guys watching them.  

It was like Dalgleish or Vialli being promoted within a coaching system.  (Or Souness!!)

The next guy will have to replace the whole existing set up and there will be no established club person to watch over him other than Marina.

There are 2 or 3  more senior youth coaches than Jodie already at the club. 

More senior as in age? Jody did an amazing job here.  Best of the development coaches I thought. 

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Juni   
1 hour ago, Blue Rod said:

I dont think you can compare the managerial career paths of those two managers to Lampard's.  Pep Guardiola for example, managed the Barcelona B side where he excelled with young and upcoming talents and convinced the hierarchy of his methods. Apart from sentiments there is really nothing to justify appointing Lampard. Ask yourself; what has Lampard done to convince you he is the right man for the Chelsea job? 

Guardiola managed one season in Spain's third tier, Zidane had 18 months in Spain's third tier, and I find his TD shadowing experience a bit insignificant.

I certainly have no issue with those providing cogent arguments against his appointment, I just disagreed with the notion that no big serious club would consider hiring a manager off the back of one year's experience at a lower level, when history tells us that plenty of them have, to mixed success.

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27 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Well , if appointing Frank is lunacy , which seems the general consensus, who are we gonna call ?

Blanc ?

Benitez ?

Mourinho ?

Eddie Howe ?

Brendan Rodgers ?

Maximilian Allegri ?

 

Who ?

Ten signings Guardiola ?

Tbh I suspect all of those managers named would have got Derby to 6th or above last season. Can you imagine any other top 6 team hiring Frank? He wasn't even linked with the Brighton job. Personally I think Allegri would do well if he could be convinced. What have you seen that makes you think Frank would be better than, for example, Eddie Howe?

Christophe Galtier, Ligue 1 manager of the season (& 12-13) Took over Lille Dec 17, staved off relegation and took them to 2nd this year.

Adi Hutter, took Frankfurt to the EL semi final where they outplayed us but lost the pens, challenged for top 4. Done the double in Austria & won a Swiss league. Drawn plaudits for his goal laden football.

I dont really follow other leagues but those are two names I found with a quick Google, who have managerial records immeasurably better than Franks. Just because you and I haven't heard of them doesn't mean there aren't good managers out there. I would expect somebody employed to find our next manager to have a much better idea than any of us.

Then of course there are names you know and chose to ignore like Nuno, Ten Hag.

Plenty of people have admitted they would love to see Frank here for sentimental reasons, which is fine, no problem with that if people say it for what it is. I do have a problem with the suggestion he is the only/best/logical option, imo all of those are BS and there isn't enough evidence to come to any of those conclusions.

I would also love to see Frank here but I dont get what the rush is, there's plenty of time for him to learn the trade first he is 40 years old and 1 year into his management career. Whereas we are desperate for somebody to consolidate and rebuild with the ban this year or next.

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39 minutes ago, Ham said:

More senior as in age? Jody did an amazing job here.  Best of the development coaches I thought. 

More senior as being promoted as Cup winning U 18 coaches with Jodi following in their footsteps.

 

33 minutes ago, Juni said:

Guardiola managed one season in Spain's third tier, Zidane had 18 months in Spain's third tier, and I find his TD shadowing experience a bit insignificant.

Not for me - it is far more relevant than coaching.

35 minutes ago, Juni said:

I certainly have no issue with those providing cogent arguments against his appointment, I just disagreed with the notion that no big serious club would consider hiring a manager off the back of one year's experience at a lower level, when history tells us that plenty of them have, to mixed success.

All the examples I can think of have involved one man to lead an existing team, with an experienced Sporting Director or equivalent, with experienced people already in player acquisition roles, and where the man is already known and respected by players and other coaches.

None of the above apply to Lampard or Chelsea apart from the respect and the few months getting his badges at the club during his 5 year absence.
Of the massive playing staff only Azpi and Willian will have ever have played with Lampard (excluding unlikely to return loaness like Moses).

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JaneB   
8 hours ago, kev61 said:

To add to that small book makers copy the big five(Williamhill,ladbrokes,bet365,paddy power and corals.I could tell you how to make a good holiday out of them just by signing up with no risk - but that is spam.

Thanks Kev, I'll bear that in mind!

7 hours ago, BlueFizz said:

The thing to avoid is assuming short odds (Frank’s) mean bookies definitely know something we don’t - odds are based on their calculated likelihood (or risk) of something happening, but they really track punters activity in an inverse relationship - the more people bet on Frank, the more they risk paying out so the shorten odds to make their risk less and less.

People too often assume they have insider knowledge, that’s not necessarily case.

Indeed, they are alert to trends that suggest some people might... eg a sudden surge in big money bets for Benitez might worry them and they would actually ‘close the book’ on Benitez.

 

Thanks 😳🤔😳

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7 minutes ago, Lump Of Celery said:

as we are desperate for somebody to consolidate and rebuild with the ban this year or next.

Well , currently the ban is live , so we have a ban on place . I cannot think of a better time for Lampard to join , the expectations will be low because of the ban and the loss of Hazard . Nobody should be expecting a march to the title or a Champions league victory , consolidation , getting the best out of players Sarri failed to do so with like Kante who had his worst season for us , like Azpillicueta who was ropey, like Alonso who was a shadow of the player he was . 

As for all those managers who could have achieved sixth with Derby ?

Bielsa a manager of far greater pedigree didn't manage it with a bigger budget at Leeds did he ? And nobody would bat an eye if he was suggested for the job .

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Blue Rod   
59 minutes ago, Juni said:

Guardiola managed one season in Spain's third tier, Zidane had 18 months in Spain's third tier, and I find his TD shadowing experience a bit insignificant.

I certainly have no issue with those providing cogent arguments against his appointment, I just disagreed with the notion that no big serious club would consider hiring a manager off the back of one year's experience at a lower level, when history tells us that plenty of them have, to mixed success.

Both Guardiola and Zidane were closely involved with the main squad in those periods. As someone else has already flagged up, both Guardiola and Zidane took over settled squads with a established style, the exact opposite of what young Frank would have to deal with. 

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1 minute ago, Mark Kelly said:

Bielsa a manager of far greater pedigree didn't manage it with a bigger budget at Leeds did he ? And nobody would bat an eye if he was suggested for the job .

Final table reads Leeds 3rd on 83 points Derby 6th on 74 points so yes he did manage it. You don't move up the table for winning a play off semi final. If you are going to argue the play off games as an indication, we lost to a cup game Bradford when Mourinhk managed us and I can't even remember who their manager was.

Interesting read for anyone wondering what managers are out there https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-50-best-football-managers-world-2018

I picked out a couple below -

Marcelina - He took Villarreal from second-tier anonymity to the Europa League semi-finals in four years from 2012 – leaving the Yellow Submarine on the eve of 2016/17 – but got to work quickly after arriving at Mestalla last summer. His influence instilled much-needed calm on and off the pitch, with smart signings on a limited budget and tactical discipline creating a new-look side that secured a return to the Champions League at the first attempt

Jose Bordalas
Simply, Bordalas has completely transformed a club. When he took over Getafe at the end of September 2016, they were second-bottom of Spain’s Segunda Division. In the same season he got them promoted to La Liga, then steered los Azulones to an eighth-placed finish in their first season back, only five points off a European berth. Bordalas professes immense levels of work rate, focus and defensive solidity. Getafe players have followed his every move, and it makes them one of the toughest teams to beat in Spain. How much longer they’ll be able to keep one of Europe’s hottest managerial properties remains to be seen.

Pabla Machin
After securing promotion to La Liga for the first time in Girona’s history, Machin didn’t stop there. Instead, he took them to an unprecedented 10th-place finish in their debut campaign and made them a serious top-flight outfit which claimed the scalps of Real Madrid, Villarreal, Athletic Bilbao and Celta Vigo. When he took over at Girona in March 2014, they were bottom of Spain’s second division. It was inevitable that he’d be snapped up for greater things, and they came in the form of Sevilla, who acted quickest to snare him in May with the hope of instilling some much-needed organisation and fight into the club. It’s so far, so good – Machin’s side are third in La Liga after nine games after trouncing Real Madrid 3-0 in September.

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1 minute ago, Lump Of Celery said:

Final table reads Leeds 3rd on 83 points Derby 6th on 74 points so yes he did manage it. You don't move up the table for winning a play off semi final. If you are going to argue the play off games as an indication, we lost to a cup game Bradford when Mourinhk managed us and I can't even remember who their manager was.

Interesting read for anyone wondering what managers are out there https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/fourfourtwos-50-best-football-managers-world-2018

I picked out a couple below -

Marcelina - He took Villarreal from second-tier anonymity to the Europa League semi-finals in four years from 2012 – leaving the Yellow Submarine on the eve of 2016/17 – but got to work quickly after arriving at Mestalla last summer. His influence instilled much-needed calm on and off the pitch, with smart signings on a limited budget and tactical discipline creating a new-look side that secured a return to the Champions League at the first attempt

Jose Bordalas
Simply, Bordalas has completely transformed a club. When he took over Getafe at the end of September 2016, they were second-bottom of Spain’s Segunda Division. In the same season he got them promoted to La Liga, then steered los Azulones to an eighth-placed finish in their first season back, only five points off a European berth. Bordalas professes immense levels of work rate, focus and defensive solidity. Getafe players have followed his every move, and it makes them one of the toughest teams to beat in Spain. How much longer they’ll be able to keep one of Europe’s hottest managerial properties remains to be seen.

Pabla Machin
After securing promotion to La Liga for the first time in Girona’s history, Machin didn’t stop there. Instead, he took them to an unprecedented 10th-place finish in their debut campaign and made them a serious top-flight outfit which claimed the scalps of Real Madrid, Villarreal, Athletic Bilbao and Celta Vigo. When he took over at Girona in March 2014, they were bottom of Spain’s second division. It was inevitable that he’d be snapped up for greater things, and they came in the form of Sevilla, who acted quickest to snare him in May with the hope of instilling some much-needed organisation and fight into the club. It’s so far, so good – Machin’s side are third in La Liga after nine games after trouncing Real Madrid 3-0 in September.

The problem is , Frank is getting it . I personally think he'll do a fantastic job , naive or not!

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My opinion is that Lampard has more than 50/50 chance of being a success here. Was Sarri not a risk? (new league, unfamiliar club, English language , English press, lack of serious previous success).  He then quit after a year. If he hadn't of quit maybe he would have been fired. If neither happened, maybe he would have gone on to have a terrible second season minus Hazard and any new player recruitment.  Almost any new coach is a risk but I think some are more of a risk worth taking and Lampard falls into that bracket for me. 

In fact the risk would be not to hire him now but to wait for a future opportunity. I know the mantra is "he's not ready, give him some more coaching experience, wouldn't it be awful if he failed and we had to sack a legend". But right now Lampard and Morris are very comfortable in their 'Chelseas skins'. This is still home to them. The faces at the club are very familiar, Morris particularly knows the younger players well, they both know the owner very well, these fans still remember his on field achievements clearly and have great love for him. Cech is now our TD. 

He will gain more experience as years go by with other clubs but he will lose that incredibly tight bond he has with the club now and it may be a stranger place when he returns...if we are even still at the Bridge. Lampard having to coach Chelsea when we are playing our home games in a random ground somewhere is not quite the same. Now is good. In fact now is perfect.

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