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Michael Tucker

Borussia Mönchengladbach 2 Chelsea FC 2

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7 hours ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

Really?

Poor squads were in the 70’s & 80’s when the club yo-yo’d between division 1&2 and nearly division 3

Some people do have short memories, others should read up on the clubs history. 

That is just being silly.   

It is much poorer than any squad we have had post RA by a long chalk, with the exception of 15/16 when we had twice as many top class players but only 19 over 21s including 2 crocked on-loan CFs and 3 GKs.

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chelboy   
9 hours ago, xCELERYx said:

Isn't that exaggerated to be fair. The last 5 months of football last season would have had us in 6th place. With only 4 points separating us from 12th placed Burnley. Irrespective of reputations, we've not that good of a team to command at top 4 finish like in years prior. While I don't expect us to finish outside of the top 10, I'd not completely rule it out either. A finish around 6th-10th is probably where we're at. 

Also Bournemouth pulled our pants down last season with ease. 

I don’t remember people saying we will struggle to finish in the top 10 last season. If Hazard was still here I doubt people would be saying that now. I don’t know where all the doom and gloom has suddenly come from to suggest we are going to become Bournemouth and struggle to get out of the lower half of the table. That is practically a 30-40 point swing. We have average strikers I know that but we probably have the 3rd/4th best midfield along with probably the 5th best defence on paper. It will be a bumpy season but I think we have more talent than people are suggesting. I can understand saying we may finish 7th or so but saying struggling to make top half like it is a miracle is almost calling us a relegation team.

In this league anyone can pull your pants down if they catch you on the right day. Palace and Newcastle beat City last season. 

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30 minutes ago, chelboy said:

I don’t remember people saying we will struggle to finish in the top 10 last season. If Hazard was still here I doubt people would be saying that now. I don’t know where all the doom and gloom has suddenly come from to suggest we are going to become Bournemouth and struggle to get out of the lower half of the table. That is practically a 30-40 point swing. We have average strikers I know that but we probably have the 3rd/4th best midfield along with probably the 5th best defence on paper. It will be a bumpy season but I think we have more talent than people are suggesting. I can understand saying we may finish 7th or so but saying struggling to make top half like it is a miracle is almost calling us a relegation team.

In this league anyone can pull your pants down if they catch you on the right day. Palace and Newcastle beat City last season. 

I think there are a number of problems that have got people worried. First is that it does not look like we have a player capable of scoring 12+ goals in the league as apart from Giroud, years ago, no one in the squad has done so in the PL. I for one do not expect us to score more than 55 goals in the league if we are still banned come January. Further to this is the defence, which is error prone and unconvincing as a 4. People a lot of the time like to blame this on Luiz and Alonso, however, even when those two players are not on the pitch we still do not defend properly and I would say get penned in even further than when they are. Over pre-season we conceeded 11 goals in 6 matches against poor opposition, that needs to be resolved as there is no chance we are outscoring half the teams in the league. 

Next is that the new players into the squad are esstentially high performing Championship players, Tammy, James, Mount. In a normal season all of those players would have been looking at a PL loan not the Chelsea first team. As a result, we cannot expect them to be performing at a top 10 level straight away as the leap is massive. The same applies to CHO as well. Lastly is SFL, he has only had one years management experience and at a lower level. If his name was not SFL he would never have not the job as even Steve Holland is much more qualified for the role. Thus, as with the players we need to give him time as he learns the ropes. However, with out bona fide world class players to fall back on, apart from Kante and maybe Kepa if he improves this season, the task ahead of him is massive.

Edited by Conte Kante

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chelboy   
5 minutes ago, Conte Kante said:

I think there are a number of problems that have got people worried. First is that it does not look like we have a player capable of scoring 12+ goals in the league as apart from Giroud, years ago, no one in the squad has done so in the PL. I for one do not expect us to score more than 55 goals in the league if we are still banned come January. Further to this is the defence, which is error prone and unconvincing as a 4. People a lot of the time like to blame this on Luiz and Alonso, however, even when those two players are not on the pitch we still do not defend properly and I would say get penned in even further than when they are. Over pre-season we conceeded 11 goals in 6 matches against poor opposition, that needs to be resolved as there is no chance we are outscoring half the teams in the league. 

Next is that the new players into the squad are esstentially high performing Championship players, Tammy, James, Mount. In a normal season all of those players would have been looking at a PL loan not the Chelsea first team. As a result, we cannot expect them to be performing at a top 10 level straight away as the leap is massive. The same applies to CHO as well. Lastly is SFL, he has only had one years management experience and at a lower level. If his name was not SFL he would never have not the job as even Steve Holland is much more qualified for the role. Thus, as with the players we need to give him time as he learns the ropes. However, with bona fide world class players to fall back on, apart from Kante and maybe Kepa if he improves this season, the task ahead of him is massive.

I agree on most of what your saying but teams that struggle to make it out the bottom half are in relegation battles for some parts of the season they only start to pull away towards the end. I just can’t see us being that low unless we completely down tools. Seeing us 11-13th positions for most of the season would be odd and way below what we can achieve. 

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6 minutes ago, chelboy said:

I agree on most of what your saying but teams that struggle to make it out the bottom half are in relegation battles for some parts of the season they only start to pull away towards the end. I just can’t see us being that low unless we completely down tools. Seeing us 11-13th positions for most of the season would be odd and way below what we can achieve. 

All I can say after watching the first half of yesterday's game, is that that is the level we are at right now.  Actually H1 we were relegation standard, trying to play a style of football that was well above the abilities of the players.  Kante and Rudiger might make a huge difference, but no one else in the squad will change things much.
(lets hope H2 is better) 

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1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

All I can say after watching the first half of yesterday's game, is that that is the level we are at right now.  Actually H1 we were relegation standard, trying to play a style of football that was well above the abilities of the players.  Kante and Rudiger might make a huge difference, but no one else in the squad will change things much.
(lets hope H2 is better) 

Yeah, Lampard still learning now, so there is hope for correction play in defense,  attack doesn't look bad, we will fight for third place for sure )

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Ham   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

All I can say after watching the first half of yesterday's game, is that that is the level we are at right now.  Actually H1 we were relegation standard, trying to play a style of football that was well above the abilities of the players.  Kante and Rudiger might make a huge difference, but no one else in the squad will change things much.
(lets hope H2 is better) 

Check the second half as we could and should have scored 5 plus goals. 22 shots with 12 on target.

Funny you should comment on our chances this season without watching the second half of a game. 

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1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

(lets hope H2 is better) 

A lot better, but still not good enough for top 6.  A lot has to be done in the first month, and I am going to be the first person now to say I worry if Frank is up to the task.

The very first 20 mins when Borussia pressed us very high we looked awful, and conceded the first as a result.  After 20 mins the press disappeared (too much to expect a german team to keep it up longer than that, but expect a lot of it in the prem).  We looked a lot freer and were able to pass the ball around now that we were allowed to.  We had a few chances, but no more than they did, and we ended H1 2-0 down.  You just aren't getting that back against a PL team unless you own Fabregas and or Hazard.  Certainly not if Giroud, Barkley and Kenedy are your attacking subs.

So H2 we did get two penalties (one a bit of a joke) and it was good to see us score both since with VAR this year we may a few.
There were great chances on both sides which is great if you want a random amount of goals on each side and a random number of points in each game, but unfortunately the sum of 38 random numbers is inevitably close to an average total at the end of the season.

What is wrong?  The defence can't play the ball when under pressure.  Nor do they (can they?) play it long to a CF as an option. The AMs and No 10 are uninspiring - they have created some a number of chances against weak defences, but my impression is pretty much that that describes the oppo defences rather than us.  When opponents run at us we just back back back right off (possibly because only Rudiger and Kante have the pace to dare to get close to opponents).  And despite having the best rapid short passer in the prem, and after a season where short passing under pressure was the tactic, we don't seem to be able to pass under pressure at all (it was a rough pitch I admit).

5 minutes ago, steve.crowford said:

Yeah, Lampard still learning now, so there is hope for correction play in defense,  attack doesn't look bad, we will fight for third place for sure )

Isn't that the main problem - Lampard is still learning.
For all the criticism Sarri got, he did get us playing to a new style very very quickly.  He knew what he wanted, and mostly it worked.  (Though I take it that he wanted Jorginho as critical to the new pattern and got him.  For SFL, critical I guess is the 10, and he has been stucky with Barkley and young Mount.

I want to give SFL a break, not just because I love him, but because I am probably the biggest critic of many about the standard of this squad.  But we aren't seeing much cohesion yet, and we are not seeing much spirit either.

5 minutes ago, Ham said:

Check the second half as we could and should have scored 5 plus goals. 22 shots with 12 on target.

Funny you should comment on our chances this season without watching the second half of a game. 

Just be patient, but that first half really did deserve a comment to itself.  Nightmare.

And Borussia could also have scored a few H2, indeed 5-5 would not have been unfair.
 

I am not worried by Tammy missing a few, so does Giroud, but we do at least know that Tammy can score in numbers, and he certainly has a knack of getting in the right place for chances.

But I really do not think we have seen anything like a PL defence yet.  A good PL quality press by Borrussia for 20 mins yes.  Plenty of PL (sub top 6) level attacking by the German/Austrian clubs and Barca against which we struggled.  But nothing we shouldn't have put 3 past.

 

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Ham   
26 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

A lot better, but still not good enough for top 6.  A lot has to be done in the first month, and I am going to be the first person now to say I worry if Frank is up to the task.

The very first 20 mins when Borussia pressed us very high we looked awful, and conceded the first as a result.  After 20 mins the press disappeared (too much to expect a german team to keep it up longer than that, but expect a lot of it in the prem).  We looked a lot freer and were able to pass the ball around now that we were allowed to.  We had a few chances, but no more than they did, and we ended H1 2-0 down.  You just aren't getting that back against a PL team unless you own Fabregas and or Hazard.  Certainly not if Giroud, Barkley and Kenedy are your attacking subs.

So H2 we did get two penalties (one a bit of a joke) and it was good to see us score both since with VAR this year we may a few.
There were great chances on both sides which is great if you want a random amount of goals on each side and a random number of points in each game, but unfortunately the sum of 38 random numbers is inevitably close to an average total at the end of the season.

What is wrong?  The defence can't play the ball when under pressure.  Nor do they (can they?) play it long to a CF as an option. The AMs and No 10 are uninspiring - they have created some a number of chances against weak defences, but my impression is pretty much that that describes the oppo defences rather than us.  When opponents run at us we just back back back right off (possibly because only Rudiger and Kante have the pace to dare to get close to opponents).  And despite having the best rapid short passer in the prem, and after a season where short passing under pressure was the tactic, we don't seem to be able to pass under pressure at all (it was a rough pitch I admit).

Isn't that the main problem - Lampard is still learning.
For all the criticism Sarri got, he did get us playing to a new style very very quickly.  He knew what he wanted, and mostly it worked.  (Though I take it that he wanted Jorginho as critical to the new pattern and got him.  For SFL, critical I guess is the 10, and he has been stucky with Barkley and young Mount.

I want to give SFL a break, not just because I love him, but because I am probably the biggest critic of many about the standard of this squad.  But we aren't seeing much cohesion yet, and we are not seeing much spirit either.

Just be patient, but that first half really did deserve a comment to itself.  Nightmare.

And Borussia could also have scored a few H2, indeed 5-5 would not have been unfair.
 

I am not worried by Tammy missing a few, so does Giroud, but we do at least know that Tammy can score in numbers, and he certainly has a knack of getting in the right place for chances.

But I really do not think we have seen anything like a PL defence yet.  A good PL quality press by Borrussia for 20 mins yes.  Plenty of PL (sub top 6) level attacking by the German/Austrian clubs and Barca against which we struggled.  But nothing we shouldn't have put 3 past.

 

Did you really watch the second half?

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4 minutes ago, Ham said:

Did you really watch the second half?

32 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

A lot better, but still not good enough for top 6

Why do you keep asking daft questions.  If you want to disagree, try saying what you think,  instead of these bizarre side attacks.

 

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