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Michael Tucker

Manchester United 4 Chelsea 0

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11 minutes ago, Ibn Battuta said:

Time will tell if he is a gunslinger or a kamikaze pilot.

If there is any season when we can throw a bit of caution to the wind, gamble a little, and not get too obsessed with every single point lost or gained, it's this one. Let Arsenal, Spurs and United get their knickers in a twist over top 4. I'm certainly not going to. If it happens great if not then full speed ahead for the following season.But I want to see new talent , new tactics and vital experience for Lampard.

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chara   
3 hours ago, chara said:

Not a doom and gloom question..BUT..if Chelsea were relegated how many of you here would stop following?

OK..no response to my question....

My point was with all the doom and gloom we may be missing the fact that WE are CHELSEA whatever the climate is.... through thick and thin.

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chelboy   
36 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

 

There was poor game management. We seemed to get carried away with trying to control the match and forgot to defend or watch out for counter attacks. 

We do not have the quality to control a match for 90 min. Last season our best performances came when we stepped back a little bit and allowed our opponents to come at us. If Lampard thinks we can win by dominating from from start to finish, then I'd draw my conclusions about him rather early. 

 

This. But I believe Lampard is testing this team to see what they can do. These first few weeks are going to be quite experimental I reckon. 

 

9 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Yesterday it was more the seasoned pro's who should know better who were making costly mistakes. We are relying on the likes of Pedro and Dave to steady the ship not rock the boat.

And especially this! 

Pedro Azpi and Zouma  the worst players on the pitch yesterday and all 3 have good experience in this league. How Pedro lasted the 90 I do not know. Made many poor decisions on the ball and kept losing it. The right side was horrible to watch yesterday. 

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2 hours ago, southcoastal said:

You might as well have  added

Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes…
The dead rising from the grave.
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together –

A bit alarmist perhaps  ?

This is probably the worst squad we have had since Hoddle arrived.  Certainly this Millenium.  And the most inexperienced manager since Vialli. While the league is probably more competitive than ever and we have 6 group games to navigate.
The only time I have felt quite this negative was 15/16 when we started the season with 19 over 21 players including GK2, GK3, Crocked CF2 and Crocked CF3.

4 hours ago, chara said:

Not a doom and gloom question..BUT..if Chelsea were relegated how many of you here would stop following?

24 minutes ago, chara said:

OK..no response to my question....

My point was with all the doom and gloom we may be missing the fact that WE are CHELSEA whatever the climate is.... through thick and thin.

Tricky.  Some of us have seen a relegation or two and are still following.  I doubt that many could imagine it.

 

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25 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

This is probably the worst squad we have had since Hoddle arrived.  Certainly this Millenium.  And the most inexperienced manager since Vialli. While the league is probably more competitive than ever and we have 6 group games to navigate.
The only time I have felt quite this negative was 15/16 when we started the season with 19 over 21 players including GK2, GK3, Crocked CF2 and Crocked CF3.

Tricky.  Some of us have seen a relegation or two and are still following.  I doubt that many could imagine it.

 

To answer both you and charas comment on relegation and fans, even in a hypothetical situation

Global fanbase may shrink, there's one or two Chelsea websites that that see toys thrown out of the pan if a match is lost so maybe a few millenials may move on, Also I know of several kids whose allegiance to players is stronger than to an individual club and thats in a rural backwater so may not be uncommon.

BUT  that word  ! I Think we have a hard core that will still fill out the bridge ((subject to price reduction), Multiple relegations did not hit Citys local support when they vanished down the leagues nor Sunderland nor Newcastle.

Hoddle was more of a catalyst than an achiever , Vialli well he won stuff and we were a good side to watch maybe my happiest CFC period so inexperience may have some upside. and I may be biased over that period so . . .

Why even our inexerienced SFL has already put one over Jose when Derby beat UTD last year so hope yet

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1 hour ago, Ibn Battuta said:

Solskjaer plays one dimensional counter attacking football. The proof was in the pudding last season. Despite that we go out with a super soft team playing a high press game. It was a huge gamble we really didn’t have to take. 1st game of the season away to United. If there is one game you want to see some cynical play it is this one. 

You can’t judge Lampard on one game. Time will tell if he is a gunslinger or a kamikaze pilot. High risks he does not shy away from though. 

 

1 hour ago, Ibn Battuta said:

Zouma made a mistake. It can be forgiven. But I am not sure how much longer we can accept Pedro’s ball losses in critical areas. I really like Pedro but he is a seasoned pro making the most unnecessary mistakes. Please stop. 

The problem is that our seasoned pros are not leaders. I tried to make this point earlier but it fell on deaf ears or people wanted to play with semantics. Players like Pedro, Willian and Giroud our now our "leaders" due to their experience. However, none of them have ever shown any leadership qualities before and I am not expecting them to start showing them. In life some people are leaders and some people are sheep to expect them to go from sheep to leaders due to age is folly, especially player in AM positions as they decline earlier than other positions. The only player we have left with anything you may call leadership skills is Dave and everyone wants him dropped.  

As for Zouma, the problem with his performance is that it was not unexpected and it is what a few of us have pointed out about him before. For me, he is a great athlete and is a good recovery defender I.e. gets back and makes last ditch challenges. On the front foot he is poor. This was meant to have been sorted out whilst he was on loan and he has not improved. He is now 24 and I do not really see him improving in this regard. I will get behind him as he is in our colours but I do not see him becoming the Desailly like a lot of people like to fantasise about. 

Edited by Conte Kante

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3 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

Silly question but do you actually want Lampard to do well this season? You seem to be licking your lips at the prospect of his demise.

I could not care less if it comes off that way. Based on the game and the pre-season games, there are a couple things that need to be addressed. 

You keep trying to bring this back to Lampard the legend of the club. Are we just supposed to ignore the nature of the goals yesterday and try to pretend that they were not exactly what we were seeing throughout preseason??

So yes, it is the only premier league game - but it wasnt the only game we have been seeing the exact same set-up at all. And the point still stands that Lampard basically played exactly into United's hands. Whatever happened to the days when the manager would adopt a more pragmatic approach for tougher fixtures and focus on getting more points on the board than playing pretty football?

I am happy you want to Lamps to do well. So do I. But he is not going to be successful because the supporters want him to be. He is going to have to get to that point the same way Sarri, Conte, Mourinho, Benitez, Di Matteo and Ancelotti did.

Edited by Blue_In_Every_Way

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12 minutes ago, Conte Kante said:

 

The problem is that our seasoned pros are not leaders. I tried to make this point earlier but it fell on deaf ears or people wanted to play with semantics. Players like Pedro, Willian and Giroud our now our "leaders" due to their experience. However, none of them have ever shown any leadership qualities before and I am not expecting them to start showing them. In life some people are leaders and some people are sheep to expect them to go from sheep to leaders due to age is folly, especially player in AM positions as they decline earlier than other positions. The only player we have left with anything you may call leadership skills is Dave and everyone wants him dropped.  

 

The captain/leader legend problem can be traced back over the last 3 managers, Joses decent into paranoia with strong leaders, Conte similar and Sarri didn’t care. Once again its an issue that will be rectified over the coming season.

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Bison   
1 hour ago, Conte Kante said:

 

The problem is that our seasoned pros are not leaders. I tried to make this point earlier but it fell on deaf ears or people wanted to play with semantics. Players like Pedro, Willian and Giroud our now our "leaders" due to their experience. However, none of them have ever shown any leadership qualities before and I am not expecting them to start showing them. In life some people are leaders and some people are sheep to expect them to go from sheep to leaders due to age is folly, especially player in AM positions as they decline earlier than other positions. The only player we have left with anything you may call leadership skills is Dave and everyone wants him dropped.  

As for Zouma, the problem with his performance is that it was not unexpected and it is what a few of us have pointed out about him before. For me, he is a great athlete and is a good recovery defender I.e. gets back and makes last ditch challenges. On the front foot he is poor. This was meant to have been sorted out whilst he was on loan and he has not improved. He is now 24 and I do not really see him improving in this regard. I will get behind him as he is in our colours but I do not see him becoming the Desailly like a lot of people like to fantasise about. 

What leadership does Azpi show exactly? He comes out after every defeat and reads from the same script.

He doesn't lead by example  (his performances are worse than most his teammates). He's only the captain because of longevity.

Edited by Bison

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2 hours ago, southcoastal said:

The captain/leader legend problem can be traced back over the last 3 managers, Joses decent into paranoia with strong leaders, Conte similar and Sarri didn’t care. Once again its an issue that will be rectified over the coming season.

Jose always loved strong players and personalities, I would argue his problem in adapting to the modern game is that a lot of the players do not have the balls anymore and the need to encourage them/put an arm around their shoulder/tell them they are amazing all the time was what he struggled with. Look at all the players that loved him, Matterazzi, JT, Drogba, hardly shrinking violets. Conte I would argue was similar, players he desired were the likes of Vidal and Cadreva, again not timid players. At Juve he had strong relationships with Chillini, Bonnuci and Pirlo. Here, he had JT onside. Here is a very poor link to what he said about Conte: 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/john-Terry-reveals-key-differences-11718378

Even if you do not like that link, he always spoke positively about Conte and a quick google will back that up.

Sarri, I cannot comment on so much as he was not here long enough. Maybe you have a point on him but I cannot say. 

56 minutes ago, Bison said:

What leadership does Azpi show exactly? He comes out after every defeat and reads from the same script.

He doesn't lead by example  (his performances are worse than most his teammates). He's only the captain because of longevity.

I did say, 'anything you may call leadership skills', so not a ringing endorsement. I agree, he is not really a leader but he is more so than the others that I listed as he does try to encourage others at times which is more than the others in the same age bracket that others want to say will be our leaders to help the young boys. That said, someone said Willy C is good with the young players in training so I guess that is something.

Edited by Conte Kante

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