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VAR and Chelsea

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Leo91   

It is funny how Liverpool and Utd get into so many positions where they can win penalties. It's a skill in its self.

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paulw66   
On 10/27/2019 at 1:03 AM, Michael Tucker said:

 

It's always been the same though, hasn't it? VAR isn't perfect, but surely it's an improvement on the reffing lottery we had before?

 

No chance. This shambles is far, far worse. 

Before the weekend just past, there had been 90 games played in the PL and not one penalty had been awarded by VAR. Last weekend, MOTD make a big thing about that, then the following weekend, 4 penalties are given by VAR. What does that tell you? They are doing what the TV tells them, rather than managing it properly. 

The rules are so vague and wooly that they make it up as they go along. Arsenal's winner was disallowed by VAR when there was similar or less contact than the CHO penatly which was overturned. The Brighton penalty ward v Everton was just a nonsense. Krul saved two United penalties after taking 2 or 3 steps off his line....... 

At least previously you could put things down to human error. The same incidents are being treated differently on case by case basis, so there is no increased consistency, just more organised inconsistency. 

There is no way VAR has enhanced what we are watching.

Have another look at the CHO incident - there is a clear hand into the back.....another day that stands (if you play for Liverpool)

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paulw66   
On 10/27/2019 at 9:19 AM, Jonny_CFC said:

As I said I do agree with the decision today, it wasn’t a penalty for me after seeing the replays.

My issue is we saw a very similar situation only a couple of weeks ago when a particular team needed to keep their winning run going, and they were treated differently. The penalty was never going to be overturned given the circumstances and that can’t be right surely?

With VAR we are seeing there really are two sets of rules depending on the team involved in the decision. And it allows even greater control to make those decisions.

If they don’t want to give a goal they can hunt for the excuse not to give it, for example a foul or offside leading up to it, no matter how far back in the play, the rules seem to change to fit the argument each week. We have suffered from both those scenarios each already this season. If they want the goal given they just don’t bother looking. I think someone mentioned there was a foul leading up to one of Burnley’s goals yesterday.

As long as certain teams continually benefit from VAR decisions those suspicions will be there. Do you honestly think we would see a VAR performance like we had to suffer at Norwich away with a certain team in red? Never.

 

Nicely summed up and is why having VAR is infinitely worse than not having it. 

The two bolded sentences sum it up perfectly. Let's be honest, just about any goal scored from a corner or set peice could be disallowed if you look hard enough and find a hand holding a shirt somewhere, or a nudge. Likewise, look hard enough in those situations and you will find something to justify a penalty being given. 

We are now at the end of October and as far as I can make out, we have not had one positive decision from VAR in the PL. 

Edit - and why I am at it, what compounds everything with VAR is that Sky wheel out an ex referee every week to tell us how well VAR did. It's like war time propaganda by a country suffering mass casualties..........everything's fine, nothing to worry about. 

Edited by paulw66

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paulw66   

Have a look at Dermot Gallacher's explanation on the Mane penalty

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11829972/liverpool-penalty-and-hamza-choudhury-yellow-right-decisions-ref-watch

The problem we have is that we talk about minimal contact and going down theatrically, he does do that, but I do think he was fouled."

That same logic could be applied to CHO. Minimal contact for the shove in the back........

Edited by paulw66

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8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Edit - and why I am at it, what compounds everything with VAR is that Sky wheel out an ex referee every week to tell us how well VAR did. It's like war time propaganda by a country suffering mass casualties..........everything's fine, nothing to worry about. 

And Kent Walton on BT - it really is like the old Wrestling commentaries.  "These guys are genuinely doing their best".

If you wanted to sort football out, you'd use TV after the game to punish all dangerous play and diving with bans (not happening).
On the other hand if you wanted to allow further referee bias without making referees look the obvious culprits, you'd share the blame around, complicate the procedures and subtly introduce a new level of discretion (the choice of what gets looked at).  VAR errors - as the IT people say - it is a feature, not a bug.

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chara   

VAR just increases the areas of debate and whilst it does cover some issues really doesn't seem to improve the game. Goal line tech has been a really good decider totally transparent and either in or out.

CHO?...from a better angle he does get pushed...remember we are talking about top pros who know how to "impede" and it is a jungle out there especially in the box.

Defender took a chance but the push achieved it's purpose. Just one of many many "touches" in any penalty area on any given match day..without VAR it would probably have not been a topic apart from SD's after match "comment" and fans would have chalked it up as "soft" and lucky or unjust depending upon club!

A booking?..never warranted that if full consideration given..which of course comes back to selective interpretation which is where we started before VAR.

Uncomfortable about the amount of "control" the VAR ref has over a game..ref gives pen..var over rules then ref decides it's a dive...two wrongs don't make right.

Have no idea where all this is going but unless stricter criteria is mandated it looks like things will only get worse..two opinions on a goal?...penalty.. fouland on and on..officials try too hard to orchestrate a game rather than keep things under control in the flow of the game.

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We keep talking about CHO being pushed, but there also looks slight contact on his ankle.

I’m a little old Skool and think pens get dished out way too easily and generally think the punishment doesn’t often match the crime. However, I was quite comfortable with that given as a pen because it’s very hard to keep your feet , changing direction at pace when heel has been clipped.

Likewise, I would not have too many issues if a ref missed it, but to see it and give it, then overturn it is just very odd to me.

Edited by LeBoeufsGolfBall

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20 minutes ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Likewise, I would not have too many issues if a ref missed it, but to see it and give it, then overturn it is just very odd to me.

I can explain that - but it gives us another problem.

I think he "saw" a trip by Tarkowski (I know I "did" at the time).  VAR showed no trip so he changed the decision.  And he didn't check to see if there was any other offence.

But that just changes the can of worms we are in.  What are the rules about reviewing?  Is he reviewing one trip, or the penalty shout?
I'm pretty sure that in, say Cricket, if an umpire gives caught out, and then the replay shows it came off the pad and is actually LBW, he would simply change the decision to LBW.  They'd be no way the batsman could stay in.
But in this decision that is exactly what happened.  Ref called the wrong penalty, failed to review the rest of the incident, and Burnley got off.  Worse, CHO wrongly got booked.

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18 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I can explain that - but it gives us another problem.

I think he "saw" a trip by Tarkowski (I know I "did" at the time).  VAR showed no trip so he changed the decision.  And he didn't check to see if there was any other offence.

But that just changes the can of worms we are in.  What are the rules about reviewing?  Is he reviewing one trip, or the penalty shout?
I'm pretty sure that in, say Cricket, if an umpire gives caught out, and then the replay shows it came off the pad and is actually LBW, he would simply change the decision to LBW.  They'd be no way the batsman could stay in.
But in this decision that is exactly what happened.  Ref called the wrong penalty, failed to review the rest of the incident, and Burnley got off.  Worse, CHO wrongly got booked.

Thanks. I didn’t realise that. I had non football friends around to watch the boxing later, so I couldn’t quite concentrate on the game as much as I would have liked.

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Ham   
6 hours ago, paulw66 said:

No chance. This shambles is far, far worse. 

Before the weekend just past, there had been 90 games played in the PL and not one penalty had been awarded by VAR. Last weekend, MOTD make a big thing about that, then the following weekend, 4 penalties are given by VAR. What does that tell you? They are doing what the TV tells them, rather than managing it properly. 

The rules are so vague and wooly that they make it up as they go along. Arsenal's winner was disallowed by VAR when there was similar or less contact than the CHO penatly which was overturned. The Brighton penalty ward v Everton was just a nonsense. Krul saved two United penalties after taking 2 or 3 steps off his line....... 

At least previously you could put things down to human error. The same incidents are being treated differently on case by case basis, so there is no increased consistency, just more organised inconsistency. 

There is no way VAR has enhanced what we are watching.

Have another look at the CHO incident - there is a clear hand into the back.....another day that stands (if you play for Liverpool)

Agree 100%. Well said.

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Have a look at Dermot Gallacher's explanation on the Mane penalty

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11829972/liverpool-penalty-and-hamza-choudhury-yellow-right-decisions-ref-watch

The problem we have is that we talk about minimal contact and going down theatrically, he does do that, but I do think he was fouled."

That same logic could be applied to CHO. Minimal contact for the shove in the back........

I can't work out now whether Sky are actually keeping him on for the laughs.  

Every single Monday. 

It's like he doesn't look at any of the incidents over the weekend and then waits to be surprised.

Absolute tool. 

3 hours ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

We keep talking about CHO being pushed, but there also looks slight contact on his ankle.

I’m a little old Skool and think pens get dished out way too easily and generally think the punishment doesn’t often match the crime. However, I was quite comfortable with that given as a pen because it’s very hard to keep your feet , changing direction at pace when heel has been clipped.

Likewise, I would not have too many issues if a ref missed it, but to see it and give it, then overturn it is just very odd to me.

Yep.  

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