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Blue Rod   
On 04/10/2019 at 1:42 PM, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Jorginho confirmed as vice captain by Lamps. Clearly been the captain on the pitch since he joined the club and nice for him to get that recognition. Thankfully the idiots have stopped booing now and seem to recognise his quality. Shows how petty the hatred of Sarri became last season. 

I could never understand us booing Jorginho. Yes, he was at times out of his depth, and sometimes still is, in the work he is being asked to do. But it is the managers that put him in that position, a position which he is physically and technically not suited to.

I like his professionalism, strength of character and his technical qualities. When we are in control of the game he is a key player. However, controlling the game and falling under a counterattack are two sides of the same coin. This is where Sarri and Lampard have both failed to work out what to do about Jorginho. One minute he is handing out passes like an aid worker in a refugee camp, the next, opponents pass him with the ball like he is not even on the pitch. Surely there has to be some kind of solution to the latter.

 

Edited by Blue Rod

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59 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

I could never understand us booing Jorginho. Yes, he was at times out of his depth, and sometimes still is, in the work he is being asked to do. But it is the managers that put him in that position, a position which he is physically and technically not suited to.

I like his professionalism, strength of character and his technical qualities. When we are in control of the game he is a key player. However, controlling the game and falling under a counterattack are two sides of the same coin. This is where Sarri and Lampard have both failed to work out what to do about Jorginho. One minute he is handing out passes like an aid worker in a refugee camp, the next, opponents pass him with the ball like he is not even on the pitch. Surely there has to be some kind of solution to the latter.

 

I am not too sure their is unless he is given stem cell treatment or something. I have said it for a while but Jorgi is a final piece of the jigsaw player. Fantastic when you have the ball all the time and boss teams, not so great without it. If he went to City last year he probably would have been a PotY contender. 

In regard to what can actually be done to mitigate his weaknesses, whilst we are still a team that are not top, top level, I would say a move to 4231 with a physical, strong and pacy DM to sit alongside him. 343 may also work but we would need to get a baller for CB, as that is a prerequisite for that system to work, and we just sold one. 

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Blue Rod   
17 minutes ago, King Kante said:

I am not too sure their is unless he is given stem cell treatment or something. I have said it for a while but Jorgi is a final piece of the jigsaw player. Fantastic when you have the ball all the time and boss teams, not so great without it. If he went to City last year he probably would have been a PotY contender. 

In regard to what can actually be done to mitigate his weaknesses, whilst we are still a team that are not top, top level, I would say a move to 4231 with a physical, strong and pacy DM to sit alongside him. 343 may also work but we would need to get a baller for CB, as that is a prerequisite for that system to work, and we just sold one. 

If Kante sits alongside him all match, that problem should be reasonably managed. Problem is, Kante also has the natural ability to run with the ball when he senses an opportunity. His slalom skill at speed is as good as any deep-lying midfielder out there. If the attack breaks down and Kante is upfield, we should be able to support Jorginho in the middle. It means were are better off with a more mobile midfield where we attack and retreat, rather than camp at the edge of the opponent's box. Interestingly I watched Juventus against Bayer Leverkusen and didn't see a single moment of Juve trying that thing. You could almost say their goals came from counterattacks

Perhaps we can take comfort in the knowledge that some of the greatest teams in European club football had players who were good with the ball and completely useless without it. 

 

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Seen the highlights, that's such a blatant dive from Mane. You can always tell by the way a player falls to the floor... it's either natural or as though they've been shot by a sniper. Mane was the later.

It's embarrassing how clearly desperate the PL/FA/Sky is for Liverpool to win the title. It could well be the most unpopular title win (outside of Liverpool) for quite some time, and nobody likes it at all when we won the league, so that's saying something.

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Blue Rod   
9 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Seen the highlights, that's such a blatant dive from Mane. You can always tell by the way a player falls to the floor... it's either natural or as though they've been shot by a sniper. Mane was the later.

It's embarrassing how clearly desperate the PL/FA/Sky is for Liverpool to win the title. It could well be the most unpopular title win (outside of Liverpool) for quite some time, and nobody likes it at all when we won the league, so that's saying something.

Very bad acting indeed. A whole second had passed after the contact when he decided to throw himself down. Soon referees will be shooting the ball into the net to help Liverpool.  

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Ham   
3 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Seen the highlights, that's such a blatant dive from Mane. You can always tell by the way a player falls to the floor... it's either natural or as though they've been shot by a sniper. Mane was the later.

It's embarrassing how clearly desperate the PL/FA/Sky is for Liverpool to win the title. It could well be the most unpopular title win (outside of Liverpool) for quite some time, and nobody likes it at all when we won the league, so that's saying something.

It was bad enough that the ref gave it in real time but for VAR to compound it is awful.

In reality he should be charged by the FA for the dive. 

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22 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

Hit the nail there mate. He’s so ridiculously underrated it’s a joke. He gets a lot of undeserved criticism and some of it is just made up. 

What was your name before you changed it to Willian Dollar Baby? 

Previously samhoward17, thought it was time for a switch up. 

11 hours ago, Blue Rod said:

I could never understand us booing Jorginho. Yes, he was at times out of his depth, and sometimes still is, in the work he is being asked to do. But it is the managers that put him in that position, a position which he is physically and technically not suited to.

I like his professionalism, strength of character and his technical qualities. When we are in control of the game he is a key player. However, controlling the game and falling under a counterattack are two sides of the same coin. This is where Sarri and Lampard have both failed to work out what to do about Jorginho. One minute he is handing out passes like an aid worker in a refugee camp, the next, opponents pass him with the ball like he is not even on the pitch. Surely there has to be some kind of solution to the latter.

 

The booing of Jorginho and Sarri last year was senseless. The bridge was a toxic place at times last year with so much hate towards two individuals for no obvious reason. The turnaround in the support for Jorginho is a relief but confusing since performance levels have been consistent since he joined. 

Willian gets a similar amount of stick but not so much at the bridge. The work he does progressing the ball in deeper areas of the pitch is invaluable. No surprise that Lamps has immediately called upon both him and Jorgy as key members of the first team. Pedro would be in as well without his injury problems.

The youth are doing well but lets not forget our good form has coincided with Alonso, Azpi and the other seniors stepping up their game. 

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19 minutes ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Previously samhoward17, thought it was time for a switch up. 

The booing of Jorginho and Sarri last year was senseless. The bridge was a toxic place at times last year with so much hate towards two individuals for no obvious reason. The turnaround in the support for Jorginho is a relief but confusing since performance levels have been consistent since he joined. 

Willian gets a similar amount of stick but not so much at the bridge. The work he does progressing the ball in deeper areas of the pitch is invaluable. No surprise that Lamps has immediately called upon both him and Jorgy as key members of the first team. Pedro would be in as well without his injury problems.

The youth are doing well but lets not forget our good form has coincided with Alonso, Azpi and the other seniors stepping up their game. 

Disagree about Pedro think his time is up as a first team regular and I’ll be honest I’ve never rated highly  as others do . he puts a lot of work in but gives the ball away to much from my liking good finisher but rarely assists 

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13 minutes ago, Aussie1979 said:

Disagree about Pedro think his time is up as a first team regular and I’ll be honest I’ve never rated highly  as others do . he puts a lot of work in but gives the ball away to much from my liking good finisher but rarely assists 

Personally love Pedro. Will press relentlessly snapping at the heels of defenders and very effective in the final third. 

Now 32 he is picking up more injuries which limits his game time. Preseason and the first few games I thought he looked great. Easy to forget we were forced to play him for 300 minutes in the first week of the season. He can be hugely effective but we need to manage his minutes.

Probably the biggest difference we see with Pedro and Willian now is when they come back from an injury it takes them a while to get back up to speed. As he gets his match fitness back, like Willian I think his performance levels will get back to normal. Whether he will be here next season is probably unlikely however he'll play a big part this season. 

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On 10/5/2019 at 0:55 AM, Droy was my hero said:

You should have watched him then instead, he made hundreds of chances.  If he didn't create an assist then something is seriously wrong with the strikers we were using.  Nothing wrong at all with his creation or his contribution to attacking play.

I only wish I had your eagle eye...I'll try and watch a bit harder this season but there's a lot going on in a game so sometimes you have to refer to some stats. And I have just checked some various stat sites and I can confirm that he didn't make an assist for 2018/19 season  (one site said he made one, but most say none). So you're conclusion then is that there was something seriously wrong with our strikers? Tbh I wouldn't 100% disagree with you. In fact I was saying it for most of the season as it was actually happening. So who do we blame for our striker selections that were messing up chance after chance of Jorhinho assists ? It has to be Sarri doesn't it? He's the one that decided Morata was worth another shot (most of us could have told him different), when that penny finally dropped Sarri was the one that brought in Higuain (most of us raised eyebrows at that choice) , when that didn't work it was Sarri that preferred to make Hazard a false number 9 (when thats not his position) instead of Giroud (who was probably our most effective striker). Somewhere along the line hundreds of chances (ok lets say dozens as I'm sure you were exaggerating for effect)  were being wasted. Hazard meanwhile was playing out of his skin (when in his best position,) scoring incredible goals, making 17 assists and generally running his feet to bloody stumps. He literally dragged us over the finishing line. For this he was sometimes criticised by Sarri for not doing his duty in the 'defensive phase'. I can't imagine why he wanted to go? But before I'm jumped all over for suggesting that Sarri didn't do a brilliant job, lets just take a step back. 

Other players managed to get assists. William had 13 I think in all comps, and this is a player derided for his final pass. Barcley got 6 having played far fewer games than Jorhinho. Kante got 4 . In fact every single Chelsea outfield player got assists including bit part players like RLC and CHO. The only ones I think that didn't were ones that played less than 5 games (Fabragas and Zappo). Jorhinho played almost every game but stands alone with a big fat zero. And this from a player who made a record 3,600 passes over the season plus a record 180 in one game. Now I really think you need to explain your position on Jorhinho  in a bit more detail, coz something isn't adding up here. 

IMO he might be a decent player but we are only seeing it in flashes and Lampard is still assessing. This season he has been poor and good in equal measure. Its early doors but injuries has certainly meant he's had plenty of game time. Does being made vice captain really mean that much? Have a chat with Gary Cahill about that. As far as assists go I feel he is rather a one trick pony . He collects the ball somewhere between the centre circle and the D and with a side foot lifts the ball over the defence for a striker to take it on the run. He does it quite well but the first thing to say about this is that it got very predictable. Defenders would see it coming and step up. Many times last season we were caught a yard off side through this over the top ball. If it does come off the attacker has the ball coming over his shoulder with a couple of defenders very close by. He needs a perfect first touch. If the striker manages this, the keeper has also seen this ball coming and is already off his line to narrow the angle and make a save.  So yes its a chance but its a tricky one and in the whole season it didn't come once. 

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