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1 hour ago, The_Ghost said:

Whereever I look, Jorginho was rated our best or in the top two by independent observers. 

Not for the first time previous critics of Jorginho continues to unjustly play down his performances. 

This. 

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Kezza   
52 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Nowhere near as good as Jorginho in Jorginho's role.  Nowhere near as good as Kante in Kante's role.  In that sense, yes, different class.
As good as Barkley in Barkley's role (but well short of Mount).
He is a good guy to have as back up.

Hazardesque!!  It is one thing to sprint away from a guy who commits himself to a tackle.  Quite another to sprint towards a player and then past him when he just needs to stop you from going in one specific direction.

As good as Barkley in Barkley's role? You know how ridiculous that sounds?

That should be the last straw for anyone who still takes you seriously.

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1 hour ago, The_Ghost said:

Whereever I look, Jorginho was rated our best or in the top two by independent observers. 

Not for the first time previous critics of Jorginho continues to unjustly play down his performances. 

I need to take issue with this "unjustly playing down his performance". Firstly I didn't say he had a bad game but I just took issue when you said that he was head and shoulders above everyone else because we had some pretty good performances last night. He scored 2 goals (all be it from pens) and for Gods sake, by that mere fact it will catch the eye of  "independent observers" and that should get you a solid 7/10 even if you had an uneventful  game....I would probably give him a 7 too but put him behind Kova, Pulisic and James.  But which independent Ghost, rated him the best? Who rated him head and shoulders above anyone else?  Well I've looked, because for my own sanity I needed to make sure I'm being a biased knob. These are honestly the very first online ratings I came across. They belonged to The Independent , Squawka, The Express, the Mirror, The Sun, The Star, Football London, Highpresssoccer, West London Sport, ESPN, Real Chelsea Fans, Pride of London and to get very neutral something called the Man United Times! 

Now not one of these reputable or irreputable online sources put Jorges ahead on his own when scoring out of 10. He was often tied for top spot , mostly with Kova, Aspi, Pulisic, James and Tammy, but never did he make top spot on his own, even with those two goals. Did anyone get top spot? Yes sir they did. It may surprise you to learn that Azpi got 2 top scores, Kova got a top score from Man United Times and Willian surprisingly got an 8 top score from Highpresssoccer. TBH scores were quite erratic and odd but it wasn't me who brought up the idea of independent observers so don't shoot the messenger. I mean, you're probably going to choke on your porridge but The Sun online gave Pulisic and (wait for it)... Bats... each an 8 but Jorges a 6!! They explained this by saying "he sometimes found himself chasing shadows".   But I'll leave the last word to ESPN online. They didn't give Kova the highest score but said he was our 'stand our player'. But they liked Jorges performance too. In fact the very words they used were "he looks reinvented under Lampard".  Like I say, don't shoot the messenger!

 

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Sciatika   

I get a sense of "he was really good but he was better". I rewatched the second half of the Watford game recently and Kovacic and Jorginho were both brilliant. Could I separate them? Probably, but only on fine margins.

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7 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Nowhere near as good as Jorginho in Jorginho's role.  Nowhere near as good as Kante in Kante's role.  In that sense, yes, different class.
As good as Barkley in Barkley's role (but well short of Mount).
He is a good guy to have as back up.

Hazardesque!!  It is one thing to sprint away from a guy who commits himself to a tackle.  Quite another to sprint towards a player and then past him when he just needs to stop you from going in one specific direction.

Kovacic - Most dribbles in the whole of the premier League I believe, well he was before Watford match and completed some in that so I presume he is still top.

I'm not sure for the exact definition used for a dribble in the stat. But last season he completed 42 throughout the whole season, before Watford on Saturday he had completed 27 already and I think he completed 3-4 in that game. So safe to assume he is currently on abut 30 dribbles this season.

So the man himself says he has more freedom, the stats say he is playing with more freedom, he clearly looks a better player this season. He is certainly not playing like a back up and its probably only a matter of time in the coming weeks that we see a midfield comprising of Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic.

We'll see when those three are back in tandem, will he go back to sideways quick ball recycler or will he continue with what we are currently seeing from him under Lampard. I know where my money will be be. 

 

Edited by LeBoeufsGolfBall
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chelboy   
1 hour ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Kovacic - Most dribbles in the whole of the premier League I believe, well he was before Watford match and completed some in that so I presume he is still top.

I'm not sure for the exact definition used for a dribble in the stat. But last season he completed 42 throughout the whole season, before Watford on Saturday he had completed 27 already and I think he completed 3-4 in that game. So safe to assume he is currently on abut 30 dribbles this season.

So the man himself says he has more freedom, the stats say he is playing with more freedom, he clearly looks a better player this season. He is certainly not playing like a back up and its probably only a matter of time in the coming weeks that we see a midfield comprising of Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic.

We'll see when those three are back in tandem, will he go back to sideways quick ball recycler or will he continue with what we are currently seeing from him under Lampard. I know where my money will be be. 

 

Despite all 3 deserving to play there isn’t enough goals in that midfield week in week out. We only play it in the big games for more protection. RLC and Mount will be 3rd CM for the majority of games when fit. 

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Going into the Kova v Jorgi situation it will be interesting to see what happens when everyone is fit. Personally, Kante is my first name on the team sheet so that leaves two spots for Jorgi, Kova, Mount, RLC and Barkley. Barkley at that point can just be discounted, whilst I would also say RLC is going to find things tough with his work rate off the ball as hard running is a prerequisite with this side.

That then leaves Jorgi, Kova and Mount for two positions. Personally, I think Jorgi provides a lot of leadership on the pitch and that gets him the No.4 spot, which then leaves Kova v Mount for No.8. Imo, Mount is is more suited to the No.8 role and I think Frank sees a lot of himself in him which means that he will start initially when everyone is fit. 

Now do not get me wrong, Kova has been a revelation this season but I think he is going to find in tough getting in front of Kante and Jorgi who I think are his real competition. Long term however, his situation is why I can see Kante being cashed in during the Summer as next Summer is the last window the club can get mega money for Kante and Kova is probably best in his No.6 role.

Now, do not get me wrong, I absolutely love Kante (I mean just look at my username) but if we got a £90-100m bid for him, I see Granny taking the money as he is also our highest earner. That said, I am not sure he would want to leave as he appears to love the club and everyone loves him, so this is pure speculation my part. 

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1 hour ago, chelboy said:

Despite all 3 deserving to play there isn’t enough goals in that midfield week in week out. We only play it in the big games for more protection. RLC and Mount will be 3rd CM for the majority of games when fit. 

Possibly. I think if we use the squad well, there is more than enough games so that all 5 get serious game time and none of them spend too much time out of the first eleven.

To be honest, I am still not too convinced Mount is ready to play in the midfield area week in week out. I am going to contradict myself a little here, but his best performance in a Chelsea shirt so far was away in Ajax for me and he did that No 8 type role in that game.

But I also think his more consistent performances so far have been when he is playing slightly higher up in the wider forward role.

So whilst I have no doubt he can play well in either position, at this stage of his development, I actually prefer him to play higher up as an option alongside Willian, Pulisic and CHO.

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