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Michael Tucker

Brighton & Hove Albion 1 Chelsea 1

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Blue Rod   
On 02/01/2020 at 2:32 AM, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

This is a guy who has been playing relentlessly for the past couple weeks and you're claiming that pressing "is no extra work for him" - whatever that means exactly. 

I can think of an alternative... maybe he just does what 95% of other strikers do and just waits for some service instead....?

 Many of Tammy's goals have been created by his supporting forwards. That is how it should be. But equally, there is nothing extraordinary about a striker spotting a player in a better position and passing to him instead. That is how Lampard used to benefit from Drogba. If Tammy wants to climb to the next level, he would have to learn that and learn it fast. Because as far as I am concerned, we do need to sign a top striker to provide Tammy with a competition that he desperately needs. 

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Blue Rod   
On 02/01/2020 at 0:00 AM, Droy was my hero said:

It wasn't though.  There was the goal we scored with and Abraham assist which should have been enough.  There was the sloppy shot by James when through.  There were two or three shots by Pulisic where he made good space for himself but shot poorly (though one was actually only just over).  And a couple for CHO too.

Any of those chances may have won us the match. So in effect, we should treat them as a potential match-winning chance. In my book, the difference between Tammy's shot is that the other guys had made a good decision to shoot, but were let down by their execution, whereas Tammy did not need and really should not have chosen, to shoot, because to his right was Willian, who is an expert at scoring to the far post of the keeper from that position.

I am getting worried about Tammy. Because it may have got into his head that he is a top striker. And yet he is coached by a manager who has played with or faced some of the finest strikers in the game. Someone needs to tell Tammy that decision making is as important as techniques in top-level football. 

Edited by Blue Rod

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kev61   
7 hours ago, Blue Rod said:

Any of those chances may have won us the match. So in effect, we should treat them as a potential match-winning chance. In my book, the difference between Tammy's shot is that the other guys had made a good decision to shoot, but were let down by their execution, whereas Tammy did not need and really should not have chosen, to shoot, because to his right was Willian, who is an expert at scoring to the far post of the keeper from that position.

I am getting worried about Tammy. Because it may have got into his head that he is a top striker. And yet he is coached by a manager who has played with or faced some of the finest strikers in the game. Someone needs to tell Tammy that decision making is as important as techniques in top-level football. 

The problem I feel is Frank is trying to solve a rubik's  cube with one hand behind his back.Give him a chance to sign players and then judge.

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On 1/5/2020 at 5:15 AM, Blue Rod said:

Someone needs to tell Tammy that decision making is as important as techniques in top-level football. 

That'd be Frank, no doubt. You don't think that he's already told him? Probably Jody too?

 

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GURJ SS   
On 02/01/2020 at 6:29 PM, Droy was my hero said:

Thoughtful stuff.
Fair to say SFL has had only 5 months.  But it is also fair to say that Klopp made massive changes to the team he had 5 years ago.
Only Gomez, Henderson, Lallana,Lovren, Milner, Origi and Firminho played a part in that season and this.  Only Firminho and Henderson have played a lot this year.  Firminho was bought for £29m at the start of that season from Germany (presumably with the approval of Klopp).  4 of the 7 arrived at the same time as Klopp, two (Milner and Lallana) one year earlier.   
It would be wrong to day Klopp has developed a team from raw talent - he has bought one.

 

Out of curiosity - do others see this pattern.  I invariably see a V shape with Jorginho at the back.  Kante gets as far forward as Mount does most of the time, unless we go into an extreme attack mode.  

I still don't get the moaning about Kante.  CM gets the credit or blame for a lot of things.  Everyone wins their 40/60s and CM is presumed to have had a good day.  People lose a few 55/45s and CM is presumed to have had a bad day.  It is as if they are responsible for all the tackling on the pitch when in fact most tackles are a combination effort.  Closing down players leads to sloppy passes and poor control by the next player.  Maka barely made a tackle, he just redirected opponents into the path of other blue shirts.
Yes we aren't winning the ball as easily as we have in the past.  But Kante to blame?

Kovacic is as limited as Kante, just not as good at it.  No idea why people think he can be creative after last season and after his stats for about 5 seasons.  He says "Lampard lets me play more freely" which is what the PR reps advise him to say and fits with the media narrative about Chelsea this year.  Not happening though.

 

Congratulations on daring to be objective about SFL.  On here too.  For me, Abraham and Mount are easily the most PL ready players the club has produced since JT, and Lampard has shoved them right into the mix, which shows wisdom.  But fundamentally there are great weaknesses in the first XI and the full squad.  Very different to say 2015 when we had a strong core but not enough players, more like 2012/13 when a lot needed changing.  Or 2004 when we had a bloated staff but not nearly enough real stars.  
I think our future success depends as much on the board/Scouts as on the coach.  Happy to give SFL the time now (but would hate to see him flop).  Time to sack him or commit to him is when the playing staff is strong enough to win titles again.

Klopp has definitely bought his team, I'd say there's an argument that he's able to make players perform better because he adapts plans to play to their strengths, for example his fullbacks aren't the best defensively so he uses the centre miss to cover for them, especially because he knows they can attack better than his centre mids.

I'd say that's where it changes, if Jorginho and Kovacic play together with Mount they tend to play closer to each other and control the midfield, however when Kante plays he pushes so far forward that it isolates Jorginho and we don't ever gain control of the midfield.

My biggest frustration with Kante is his decision making on the ball, yes Maka directed players into closed off areas but when he had the ball it was always the right pass, Kante literally kicks it at someone in panic, or his body language will be of a player that really doesn't want to be on the ball and it'll bounce of his shin or something. In a counter attacking team that doesn't want someone to sit in midfield and control the passage of play he's perfect, but if the manager wants to control possession with his midfielders he simply isn't needed; and the amount of times he's on the wrong side of the ball nowadays when we're being hit on a break the question rises do we even need him? I'm not knocking him, just I don't think we need that type of player anymore, I'd rather have two ball players who stay behind the ball and dictate the game over one ball player and one ball winner who attacks but isn't really worth having them attack because they aren't in position to use their main strength. Similar to my example of Klopp, as in you wouldn't see him push Fabinho high up the pitch because it's wasting his strengths. Kante's strength is being on goal side of the ball to stop counter attacks, pressing on opposition players who are breaking with the ball, and to jockey players into corners; making him constantly contribute to attack is the equivalent of a manager putting someone like Mascherano as an attacking midfielder, just doesn't work to the player's strengths.

Kova can carry the ball through a congested midfield probably better than any of our players can, that quick burst and his ball retention skills are on the level of Willian. Yes he doesn't score much or have a direct assist however the opposition see far less of the ball when he's on the pitch and most importantly our backline has a genuine outlet to pass to.

Haha true, I think when it comes to Lamps personally I think he's at the same level as a manager as the likes of Abraham and Mount are as footballers, while that means there will be mistakes it also means he like them will only get better and better.

 

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Jasonb   
On 04/01/2020 at 6:15 PM, Blue Rod said:

Any of those chances may have won us the match. So in effect, we should treat them as a potential match-winning chance. In my book, the difference between Tammy's shot is that the other guys had made a good decision to shoot, but were let down by their execution, whereas Tammy did not need and really should not have chosen, to shoot, because to his right was Willian, who is an expert at scoring to the far post of the keeper from that position.

I am getting worried about Tammy. Because it may have got into his head that he is a top striker. And yet he is coached by a manager who has played with or faced some of the finest strikers in the game. Someone needs to tell Tammy that decision making is as important as techniques in top-level football. 

I agree with your sentiments though would not describe Willian as an expert to score (he has blasted wide on occasions) yet was the strong favourite.

I also agree that Tammy's success in the golden boot table may have gone to his head rather than playing for the team.

 

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Jasonb   
11 hours ago, GURJ SS said:

I'd say that's where it changes, if Jorginho and Kovacic play together with Mount they tend to play closer to each other and control the midfield, however when Kante plays he pushes so far forward that it isolates Jorginho and we don't ever gain control of the midfield.

Interesting as I think that is why Matic left, Matic used to panic when he was the only one in front of the defence as Kante was so far upfield.

11 hours ago, GURJ SS said:

My biggest frustration with Kante is his decision making on the ball, yes Maka directed players into closed off areas but when he had the ball it was always the right pass, Kante literally kicks it at someone in panic, or his body language will be of a player that really doesn't want to be on the ball and it'll bounce of his shin or something. In a counter attacking team that doesn't want someone to sit in midfield and control the passage of play he's perfect, but if the manager wants to control possession with his midfielders he simply isn't needed; and the amount of times he's on the wrong side of the ball nowadays when we're being hit on a break the question rises do we even need him? I'm not knocking him, just I don't think we need that type of player anymore, I'd rather have two ball players who stay behind the ball and dictate the game over one ball player and one ball winner who attacks but isn't really worth having them attack because they aren't in position to use their main strength. Similar to my example of Klopp, as in you wouldn't see him push Fabinho high up the pitch because it's wasting his strengths. Kante's strength is being on goal side of the ball to stop counter attacks, pressing on opposition players who are breaking with the ball, and to jockey players into corners; making him constantly contribute to attack is the equivalent of a manager putting someone like Mascherano as an attacking midfielder, just doesn't work to the player's strengths.

I find myself questioning Kante's role too. When the midfield is congested his normal 3 foot leading first touch leads him to lose the ball as the opposition reads it. He normally offers the safe pass too. 

As we have become more possession based while Kovacic  and Jorginho are fit I don't believe we need Kante. 

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1 hour ago, Jasonb said:

Interesting as I think that is why Matic left, Matic used to panic when he was the only one in front of the defence as Kante was so far upfield.

I think Matic left because we were offered £50m for a 29 year old at a time the team needed a massive rebuild.  I'm pretty sure Kante gave him as much protection as Fabregas had in previous years.  Besides we had an extra CB in the year before and after Matic left.  

1 hour ago, Jasonb said:

I find myself questioning Kante's role too. When the midfield is congested his normal 3 foot leading first touch leads him to lose the ball as the opposition reads it. He normally offers the safe pass too. 

As we have become more possession based while Kovacic  and Jorginho are fit I don't believe we need Kante. 

More than heresy.

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Jasonb   
8 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

More than heresy.

In previous seasons perhaps not this season under Frank, the style has changed and I don't think it suits his attributes.

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48 minutes ago, Jasonb said:

In previous seasons perhaps not this season under Frank, the style has changed and I don't think it suits his attributes.

He plays the same as last season.  And very much the same as with Matic when Matic sat.
I'd say even 17/18 was similar as the 3rd CB meant neither CM dropped back very far.  
Frank was asked after yesterday's Burnley game if he would play Barkley and Mount together again.  He mumbled his answer a bit - along the lines of "I wouldn't want to be known as the manager who dropped Kante often".

Edited by Droy was my hero

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