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Just now, Blue Rod said:

One question to you, Droy. Do you think that Bayern have made a serious error of judgement giving Alphonso Davies so much playing time? 

No - I thought he was great.  But so were 11 bayern players.  What is your point?

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Blue Rod   
Just now, Droy was my hero said:

No - I thought he was great.  But so were 11 bayern players.  What is your point?

My point is, you spent a large part of Sarri's tenure defending his decision not to give CHO more playing time. Your argument at the time was that he is too young to be asking for more minutes 

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9 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

My point is, you spent a large part of Sarri's tenure defending his decision not to give CHO more playing time. 

I think you'll find CHO got a lot more appearances under Sarri last year than Davies did after he joined in January.
There is 5 days difference in age.  And Davies looks a much better player, faster, stronger, too.  

Maybe you need to explain your point a bit more clearly.

13 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

Your argument at the time was that he is too young to be asking for more minutes 

No.  My argument was he had a lot of potential but he wasn't Messi.  He wasn't yet good enough to be asking for more minutes.  (Frankly I doubt he was, it was just the media hype being generated by his family and a press over keen to have a go at Chelsea).

Certainly Davies's performance put to bed the idea that BM were bidding us £50m for CHO at the same time that they were buying Davies (who was already playing at adult level) for £17m.

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Chuckso   
1 hour ago, Blue Rod said:

Honestly? I think we would still be in 4th position. But more importantly, we would be playing the kind of football that makes sense. We could then go on to improve the squad.

Building a squad needs a template, a good one. It means adding players to execute a system of play. We don't have that template at the moment, I'm sorry. 

You have to think ahead. It means our current 4th position in the PL table is already history  metaphorically, and hopefully not factually. Would this manager improve next season if we give him the time and money; that is the real question. There is of course the little matter of whether we can actually hold on to 4th place.  

Haven’t posted in awhile, though been following match threads. As usual, Rod, your analysis of the situation is more than spot on. The fact you make the posts you do and get little reaction the phrase pearl before swine comes to mind (disclaimer: used with levity - no offense to our great message board members.

With regard to Lampard, one of my favorite players, I was not in favour of his appointment. This was because I watched 45 minutes of his Derby playoff match. The organization and defense transitioning of his team was horrendous and almost suicidal. I was expecting the worst on his appointment but was pleasantly surprised at the attacking verve of the team though the defensive frailties and somewhat lack of organization was quite evident. However I was content and hopeful that he would sort the defense out - though the one alarming aspect was his inability to quickly solve the problems his team was facing e.g the repeated set piece headed goals we were conceded - however I was hopeful and enjoyed the football we were playing, even boasting to a friend Chelsea were going win at Anfield after our defeat at Stanford bridge because we had largely outplayed them.

We kept on the way - playing good fearless football but were conceding worrying goals, however the true change came in the Man City game where it was clear Lampard had preached caution to the team for fear of being rolled over because of our defensive frailties - I noticed this the first minutes the match started and I was dismayed saying to myself “Lampard’s compromised his philosophy” Sad to say but since that game it has been downhill from there. The good things we were doing with an attack-minded philosophy - confident pressing and pass and move was sacrificed because of our defensive frailties and now we are left in limbo with a directionless, less intense, less movement and fearful state of play - all the things that Blue Rod has repeatedly stated - the basics and fundamentals have been absent. The worst thing about this is it is clear Lampard has run out of ideas because he has been unable - to see and - therefore change things. Rather largely relying on personnel changes as though he sees it as his players letting him down ala a Jose Mourinho. 
 

At this moment, we have zero identity - the best I can describe it is maybe a defensively suspect, slightly more verve-y Sarriball. Lampard does not have my confidence. From what I have seen - his inability to spot the problems and provide solutions - I would strongly wager he would not be a top manager.

 

 

Edited by Chuckso

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JaneB   
2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

We were quite a bit better last year than this.  Credit Hazard for that if you wish.  Why do say Misery Guts about Sarri?  Always struck me as cheerful and very open.  Is it just because I have spent many years listening to people speak broken English and inflicting strongly accented Polish on others.
Indeed for a man with a job offer from Juve up his sleeve and with a board that chose to say absolutely nothing in the face of speculation he was about to be sacked, Sarri was an amazingly enthusiastic manager.  

 

Eh?

I don't know Droy, is it?  "Cheerful and very open"?  Made me miserable just looking at him.  Not at all personable, couldn't understand anything he said and he always looked grey and ill.   Didn't seem to be a lot of positive body language with the players either.  Just so uninspiring. 

1 hour ago, chara said:

OK..lets have some positive outlook here and ditch all the doom and gloom and the "I'm right he's wrong" attitude.

Chelsea lost to a better side and not a surprise given this seasons situation as well documented by all.

Frank is a new unknown unproven start.... if he rises to the occasion next and future seasons it will be a great achievement....but he wouldn't be the first new coach/manager to succeed nor fail for that matter...give him the chance with an open mind.

And...MLS?....I have always followed the local side wherever I have lived..followed not supported but MLS leaves me uninterested..second rate league which could should be better but for discussion elsewhere....doesn't mean good/top players can't be found..j

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Blue Rod   
27 minutes ago, Chuckso said:

Haven’t posted in awhile, though been following match threads. As usual, Rod, your analysis of the situation is more than spot on. The fact you make the posts you do and get little reaction the phrase pearl before swine comes to mind (disclaimer: used with levity - no offense to our great message board members.

With regard to Lampard, one of my favorite players, I was not in favour of his appointment. This was because I watched 45 minutes of his Derby playoff match. The organization and defense transitioning of his team was horrendous and almost suicidal. I was expecting the worst on his appointment but was pleasantly surprised at the attacking verve of the team though the defensive frailties and somewhat lack of organization was quite evident. However I was content and hopeful that he would sort the defense out - though the one alarming aspect was his inability to quickly solve the problems his team was facing e.g the repeated set piece headed goals we were conceded - however I was hopeful and enjoyed the football we were playing, even boasting to a friend Chelsea were going win at Anfield after our defeat at Stanford bridge because we had largely outplayed them.

We kept on the way - playing good fearless football but were conceding worrying goals, however the true change came in the Man City game where it was clear Lampard had preached caution to the team for fear of being rolled over because of our defensive frailties - I noticed this the first minutes the match started and I was dismayed saying to myself “Lampard’s compromised his philosophy” Sad to say but since that game it has been downhill from there. The good things we were doing with an attack-minded philosophy - confident pressing and pass and move was sacrificed because of our defensive frailties and now we are left in limbo with a directionless, less intense, less movement and fearful state of play - all the things that Blue Rod has repeatedly stated - the basics and fundamentals have been absent. The worst thing about this is it is clear Lampard has run out of ideas because he has been unable - to see and - therefore change things. Rather largely relying on personnel changes as though he sees it as his players letting him down ala a Jose Mourinho. 
 

At this moment, we have zero identity - the best I can describe it is maybe a defensively suspect, slightly more verve-y Sarriball. Lampard does not have my confidence. From what I have seen - his inability to spot the problems and provide solutions - I would strongly wager he would not be a top manager.

 

 

I actually remember that Man City match like it was yesterday. The thing is, if you persist with the philosophy of pass and move, you would concede plenty of goals as a young team. But with time you'd use the same philosophy to improve your defending. That is modern football. But you need a confident manager who knows what he is doing. That is how teams like Bayern can deploy 5 or more players in or around opponent's 18 yd box and still manage to defend counterattacks. What we currently have is our midfield staying put to stop us being overrun, which leaves the forwards to their own trouble. This is ancient football at its worst. 

 

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Jasonb   
7 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

I actually remember that Man City match like it was yesterday. The thing is, if you persist with the philosophy of pass and move, you would concede plenty of goals as a young team. But with time you'd use the same philosophy to improve your defending. That is modern football. But you need a confident manager who knows what he is doing. That is how teams like Bayern can deploy 5 or more players in or around opponent's 18 yd box and still manage to defend counterattacks. What we currently have is our midfield staying put to stop us being overrun, which leaves the forwards to their own trouble. This is ancient football at its worst. 

This is why I like Alonso playing as he does get forward to offer forward support and was one of the few to get shot on target yesterday.

Personally think he should have crossed it though a mute point now.

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Referee was a joke, at least two of their goals were offside, and the less said about VAR the better.

Oh well. we'll do them over in the 2nd leg in their own back yard like in 2012.

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Blue Rod   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think you'll find CHO got a lot more appearances under Sarri last year than Davies did after he joined in January.
There is 5 days difference in age.  And Davies looks a much better player, faster, stronger, too.  

Maybe you need to explain your point a bit more clearly.

No.  My argument was he had a lot of potential but he wasn't Messi.  He wasn't yet good enough to be asking for more minutes.  (Frankly I doubt he was, it was just the media hype being generated by his family and a press over keen to have a go at Chelsea).

Certainly Davies's performance put to bed the idea that BM were bidding us £50m for CHO at the same time that they were buying Davies (who was already playing at adult level) for £17m.

Davies was playing in the equivalent of League 2 when Bayern bought him. Within 2 years or so they improved him into a top player. CHO might turn out to be a much less capable player than Davies, but that is beside the point. Your views about managers (and players) It's either the sun shines from their backside and so you must defend them, or they can do no good and therefore not worth a waste of objectivity.

Edited by Blue Rod

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