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Michael Tucker

AFC Bournemouth 2 Chelsea 2

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12 minutes ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

Leicester's

- Soyuncu
 

Soyuncu + his fellow Turk, Merih Demiral of Juventus, is a great CB partnership. They helped Turkey beat and draw with France in Euro qualification.

Would love if we could get them both. Their lack of experience at CL level and being from an under-rated football nation, means they can probably be had for good prices. 

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Blue Rod   
3 hours ago, chelboy said:

Who are these players that have proven themselves and are still quality? Think about the decline some of these guys have had since 4-5 years ago. 

 

No one thought Frank was a complete manager. He is expected to grow into the role. Why people suddenly expect him to have everything sorted out is beyond me. If you look at our chances conceded and Expected goals against we are similar to City and Liverpool. What those teams to do better than us is kill games. When the scoreline is 1-0 to us there are only two outcomes. Either we get the second or concede. We aren’t going to be holding on for a 1-0 unless our 1 goal comes right at the end and by then we probably would have conceded anyway. Giroud has an easy chance at 1-0 which he should score. Minutes later they score from a set piece.

Our defenders are only really comfortable defending in a deep lying block and sitting in. If people want to see that kind of football again then we should just bring back Conte. 

Every player faces declines after their peak. But there is a difference between the decline of two or three older players and inconsistency running amok in the entire squad. Alonso's performance of last two matches for, example, is not a fluke, unless you've never watched him before. Some would say he is not even playing the best game that he's still capable of. I can say the same about Willian, Emerson, Christensen, etc.

Of course we hope that Frank Lampard grows into the role. But are we not supposed to ask if he is growing at all, or should we just take it for granted that he is? Shouldn't his growth as a manager be reflected in the team's performance? We seem less of a team now than in August. 

All I am saying is, Frank Lampard must step up as a manager just as we ask his players to do. We shouldn't pretend that he has nothing to prove.  He has not proven anything yet, in my book. 

Edited by Blue Rod

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22 minutes ago, Rob B said:


@My Blood Is Blue

I guess we’ve come at this from different angles. I’ve looked at our squad of 25 players or so and the overall strength vs our main competitors, whereas you’ve looked at the 3 or 4 players that would get into each other’s team - where admittedly it is pretty even. 

I think the issue with the way you have arrived at your opinion is that whilst none of our defenders are star players like VVD or Laporte who would get in any team, as a collective of individual players, they are better than what Arsenal and Wolves have.  Arguably Spurs too with the way Auderweireld and Vertonghan have declined this season. 

I’m also pretty sure all of them would swap Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, Mount, RLC and Barkley for their midfielders - exception possibly of Spurs who have Ndombele, Le Celso, Winks, Sissoko, Dier and Ali. 

I think what your post definitely does highlight is our lack of 1 or 2 stand outs with real star quality. e.g. Aubameyang, Vardy, Kane, Son, DDG 

Indeed, we have come at it from different directions, which I guess highlights how subjective the subject is. I can see where you're coming from though, and I can't really argue with you being right or wrong, although I would say Wolves and Leicester arguably have better balanced squads than ours, it just feels like we have a lot of random shapes, trying to fit in other random holes.

But, yes I think it does highlight how far our squad has fallen in terms of star quality, gone are the days where we must have been the envy of so many fans... Cech, Terry, A.Cole, Carvalho, Makelele, Ballack, Lampard, Essien, Robben, Drogba, Costa, Fabregas, Hazard and so on. 

Edited by My Blood Is Blue
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1 hour ago, Martin1905 said:

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

I on the other hand think the basis of any good team is a settled back 4 and goalkeeper. All the reasons you list have merit, it's just not something I agree with.

Yeah but it is circular.  A good team stays unchanged because it is good.  That does not mean than not changing turns a bad team into a good one.

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7 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Yeah but it is circular.  A good team stays unchanged because it is good.  That does not mean than not changing turns a bad team into a good one.

Maybe not, but it may well make us better. Making so many changes pretty much every other game certainly isn't helping. Who knows how much of a difference it would make but it certainly wouldn't make us any worse.

 

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23 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Yeah but it is circular.  A good team stays unchanged because it is good.  That does not mean than not changing turns a bad team into a good one.

 

9 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Maybe not, but it may well make us better. Making so many changes pretty much every other game certainly isn't helping. Who knows how much of a difference it would make but it certainly wouldn't make us any worse.

 

I can see the appeal for both points of view .

Maybe all Lampard is doing is giving everyone a fair crack of the whip so that come the end of the season nobody can say they weren't given an opportunity.

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8 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Maybe not, but it may well make us better. Making so many changes pretty much every other game certainly isn't helping. Who knows how much of a difference it would make but it certainly wouldn't make us any worse.

The BM game aside, do you think Frank or the board care about short term performances?  I think this season is largely about scouting players in and even more so about scouting players out.  And maybe a lucky CL run.

2011/12 again, when we also took a punt on an unproven young manager with some good Chelsea history.  (two unproven young and short term managers).

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27 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

The BM game aside, do you think Frank or the board care about short term performances?  I think this season is largely about scouting players in and even more so about scouting players out.  And maybe a lucky CL run.

2011/12 again, when we also took a punt on an unproven young manager with some good Chelsea history.  (two unproven young and short term managers).

Again, not saying your right or wrong just that it makes no sense, in my head at least to do what we have done this year with the defence.

Rudiger plus one other centre half, my preference has always been Christensen as I've long been a big fan of his but he's got a lot of criticism this year. there's not much in it so what's the point in changing it every other game? We know Zouma isn't good enough. We know Tomori isn't ready and shouldn't really be part of the squad this year. We know Emerson isn't good enough and Alosno has his weaknesses. We know Azpilicueta is past his best but playing him in 3 different positions isn't doing him any favours. 

Just pick 4 of them, play them when fit and available and have a settled defence. I mean it hasn't helped Kepa. At all. We have a major problem on our hands with him and I think it has not been helped by our shocking defence this year, which would have been much better if we just picked the best 4 and played them regularly. 

I'm not sure we should still be deciding which ones to keep for next year after nearly 40 games this season. 

 

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3 hours ago, Blue_In_Every_Way said:

So because Alonso scores goals (which we already knew), that makes him a fine defender?

Because defending is what he is there to do, isn't it? 

And re: Christensen, a purple patch of about 5 games doesn't make him a  worthwhile option going forward.

Nope, seems to me Frank is trying to "work something out" for this lot.

Alonso scoring goals is great and all, but if people want to see him field a consistent back line in whatever formation then he has to get options who aren't 50-50 at being crap.

Well depends on what way you look at it. If we play 343 you can look at Alonso as either a defender or a midfielder. Traditionally, they are seen as defenders but if you have a midfielder who can drop in when he goes forward then it is not really an issue. People complain about playing 5 defenders but when I see Alonso I think he is much more likely to score or assist than any of our CM's and at about the same rate as our AM's so I do not really get the complaint about it being too defensive when it means he doesn't play and we have a Jorgi/Kova/Barkley playing instead. 

As for AC his physical flaws are well known and debated. However, unlike the other three CB's he actually knows how to play the position properly so doesn't get caught in no mans land and doesn't give the ball away cheaply. I am not saying AC is a great defender but the other three are always all over the place and cannot pass. Someone compared Rudi to Luiz without the passing range and I am starting to agree. As for Tomori he is short and raw which is very problematic when your GK's are Kepa and Willy, while Zouma gets far too much credit because he looks the part. Most to the time he is either ball watching, miskicking it up into the air or having to pull off recovery tackles because he has been caught out. 

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Surely , if we play James and Alonso as wing backs then that's five in defence , we learnt that a couple of years ago when despite actually winning the league and FA Cup it was used as a stick to beat Conte with .

He took half a dozen games before he realised we needed to play 3-4-3 to get the best out of players , it's taken Lamps and Morris two thirds of a season .

Meanwhile , the board still didn't help the manager , sorry coach .

funny old game .

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