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JaneB

Chelsea 2 Manchester City 1

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10 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

No it was by chance, looking for something else - but you did say you had bookmarked it and would come back to it two years later!  here
Ampadu hasn't played a league game on loan if I recall (but was very good in his single CL game).  For all your guarantees, he seems a long way off being Chelsea ready, especially at CB.  RLC doesn't play well when he is fit - so I don't really see how injuries come into it.  It is not like van Ginkel who might really have been something already without injuries.

But I really do think you have got the whole approach wrong.  Young players are all longshots up to the point where they have played 10 or so good games at top half PL level.  There are no guarantees for players who have not performed yet.  
There really is no discussion about Gilmour (or CHO or Ampadu or James yet) simply because he has not been on display often enough.

Mount and Abraham have been tried tested and proved very good.  This happened before our very eyes.

Well look it is your opinion on RLC, and certainly not everyones, but so far in the games he played under Sarri he was, in my opinion, excellent, not only scoring goals but giving a certain presence and height in midfield that we needed. It also got him England recognition. Now unfortunately right at that point of that form he got a long term injury that has kept him out until now. So I don't know what you want me to say? " Yes you're right Droy he's bang average" , or how about we see what he does this season because I think he may be in Lamps plans? He's not going to be a first name on the sheet kinda guy ( he does seem injury prone) but he will be IMO a great versatile squad player who will get plenty of games. 

As for Ampedu, I could never understand the loan. With our defensive problems this season he could have really helped. I'm going to stick my neck out and say he's a far better player than Christenson and he's still very young. 

But while we are on the subject of predictions, it appears Jorginho has been passed over twice by Lampard ( even 17 year old Gilmour got the nod over him against City). I do recall you saying that would never happen when Jorginho was fit to play...or is he injured?

Edit: oh and when you said 2 years, I hope you took into account covid break. If not I get another 3 months 😉

 

Edited by NoblyBobly
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1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I could respond to this, but you'd just dismiss anything I put forward, so I wont. 

Suffice to say, as someone else has pointed out, your argument loses any credibility when you say he is championship player. How can we be 4th, closing in on 3rd, if we have been carrying "a championship" level player all season ? He has started 27 league games, and come on in the other 4, so not like he hasn't been involved.

20 years old at the start of the season, and has got 6 goals, 5 assists (with 7 games to go). To benchmark that, Lampard joined Chelsea a year older and managed 5 goals in his first season.  

Anyway, am happy to say that I know first hand how highly Jody Morris rates him, so Mount won't be going anywhere soon, least of all to play in the Championship.

Totally agree. I would say he can be a little heads down and blinkered when approaching goal. I've seen him do that exact same thing when he blasted wide a couple of times before. But he is young and he excites me. He is prem level no question. Most prem teams would have him in a shot. 

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1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Maybe covered at the time, but can we spend a minute on the ref waving play on for the incredibly obvious handball? Obviously VAR stepped in appropriately, but there is no way anyone with working eyes should have missed that in real time. Is VAR making refs into bigger cowards?

I can't say I jumped up and screamed handball ( but I didn't have my tv glasses on) but it just looked weird immediately. It was like " what just happened there". For the ref not to spot it from his position was crazy. Did he not realise that our victory meant the title went to Liverpool? Someone should have sent him the BT feed because I think they might have said it in passing. As Basil Faulty once said " I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it". 

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JaneB   

Surely the point about Mount is that Frank rates him very highly and has backed that up by playing him this season.  He's given a young player the chance to grow and develop in the first team which is excellent news for Chelsea.

Anyway I trust Frank implicitly.  It's the least he deserves.  The only moment I wavered is when he sold David Luiz to Arsenal (big mistake...).

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2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Tbf, they did the same for Leicester in the Spurs game a few years back. Liverpool winning their first title in 30 years genuinely is a bigger story than 4th place beats 2nd place. 

Difference being that they have spent the last 3 months celebrating Liverpool's victory and they were favourites of joint favourites from August.   Whereas nobody believed Leicester had even a chance of winning the Prem up until a week or so before our game.  

2 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

Very good result, much the same performance as usual.

Well yes and no.  What was different was the professionalism, Pulisic's goal hunger and the absence of mistakes.  City have lost 8 games this season (we have lost 9) and I'm pretty sure that City have had 60-80% possession in all those games - it is their style.

In some ways the loss to Man U at the start of the season was a "more attractive performance".  This was adult football.
 

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I must have missed those chances. Apart from a free header that Kepa tipped over, what clear cut chances did they have? Yes, they dominated the ball, but we defended well, generally I thought. 

Edit - Not that this tells the whole story, but City's "expected goals" was less than 1, and ours over 4 at FT. Having watched the highlights again, Kepa made one save of note all game, and they hit the post.  

quite.
image.thumb.png.7f9ffd9aabc9d03917af98131132e02c.png

As you can see from the diagram - all the big chances were blue and in City's box.

image.thumb.png.b4ae78b2db7ab336c8a518e08f32812d.png

xG (an estimate of the value of chances) differs from goals consistently over long periods.  
It is of course the nature of football to ponder why, but it certainly happens - it is Real.
Even more so xPTS - the points you would have got if match results were bases on xG not actual score.
Liverpool have 22 more actual points that xPTS.  There is something very real they are doing over and above creating chances.
City have 6 points fewer.  
In fact on chances alone City should still be above Liverpool using xPTS (and Chelsea just 5 points behind).

 

So yes TVF there were quite a few things I wasn't happy about yesterday too.
Not least that we scored just twice when we had chances for 4.
But a) we thoroughly deserved to beat City based on chances

and b) we didn't screw it up.



 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JaneB said:

Surely the point about Mount is that Frank rates him very highly and has backed that up by playing him this season.  He's given a young player the chance to grow and develop in the first team which is excellent news for Chelsea.

Anyway I trust Frank implicitly.  It's the least he deserves.  The only moment I wavered is when he sold David Luiz to Arsenal (big mistake...).

Oh Jane, I had a bit of a soft spot for Luiz but what what a smart move that was by Lampard. And in one fail swoop Luis has done serious damage to any distant hope of the arsewipes getting 4th. A character for sure but quite flawed as a footballer. 

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1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Maybe covered at the time, but can we spend a minute on the ref waving play on for the incredibly obvious handball? Obviously VAR stepped in appropriately, but there is no way anyone with working eyes should have missed that in real time. Is VAR making refs into bigger cowards?

"Chelsea refereeing" reserved just for us. Nobody cares if we're the victims so it doesn't matter if the ref is a homer/biased/partially sighted/incompetent/of dubious parentage/all of the above. 

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Is VAR making refs into bigger cowards?

Good question, I think it is and also exposing club bias at the same time

 

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1 hour ago, thevelourfog said:

Maybe covered at the time, but can we spend a minute on the ref waving play on for the incredibly obvious handball? Obviously VAR stepped in appropriately, but there is no way anyone with working eyes should have missed that in real time. Is VAR making refs into bigger cowards?

Quite - it is cheating - and the classic example of how VAR gives refs more opportunity to be biased, not less.

A biased ref could give all the big  decisions that look 80/20 or closer to one side.
The risk is that from the TV pov many of those close decisions look much clearer on TV.  A bias based on what refs think are close gets undone because TV sees it differently.
With VAR it works differently.  Anything unclear for both ref and TV gets given according to the bias.  Anything where the TV pov shows it clearly gets corrected - at no cost to the ref.

Perfect.

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JaneB   
34 minutes ago, NoblyBobly said:

Oh Jane, I had a bit of a soft spot for Luiz but what what a smart move that was by Lampard. And in one fail swoop Luis has done serious damage to any distant hope of the arsewipes getting 4th. A character for sure but quite flawed as a footballer. 

Oh #metoo.  Loved the guy.  Flawed as a footballer, as you say, but on his day played some great matches for us and scored some cracking goals.  I wanted him as our captain at one time.

Such a likeable personality and wonderful with young supporters.

Always up front about his 'shortcomings' and I take no delight in his demise. 

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