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JaneB

West Ham United 3 Chelsea 2

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12 minutes ago, chelboy said:

Which players are those? In Villa H1 and Leicester H1 pretty much everyone had a poor half in either one of those or both. 

Villa - RLC was awful, and Kovacic was playing a meaningless role as a ball winner in front of Kante against a relegation team with 26% possession - both were first off on 55.
Leicester James and especially Gilmour were awful.
James, Gilmour, RLC  have been a big drop below anything we have seen since the restart.  RLC proved it when he got a 2nd chance.
9 or 10 big games left.  No time to be giving 2nd chances this season.

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chelboy   
12 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Villa - RLC was awful, and Kovacic was playing a meaningless role as a ball winner in front of Kante against a relegation team with 26% possession - both were first off on 55.
Leicester James and especially Gilmour were awful.
James, Gilmour, RLC  have been a big drop below anything we have seen since the restart.  RLC proved it when he got a 2nd chance.
9 or 10 big games left.  No time to be giving 2nd chances this season.

RLC has been out for 12 months. No point judging him until he gets a full pre season at least. Kova played a role that was not needed against Villa. That’s not his fault. James missed the two friendlies we had and clearly looks behind with his sharpness. Gilmour had a awful half but I question where exactly he was playing and also his first start in 3 months against a physical Leicester midfield. Not easy for any teenager. Before the restart he looked far more comfortable.

You have forgotten to mention Rudiger who was poor in both H1 against Villa and Leicester and he is a fully grown international. Other than Pulisic every player has had one poor half in a game so far which is no surprise considering the lack of recent game time. After a 3 months break and no pre season  I wouldn’t make judgements whether they are ready to play for us or not. If anything the last 10 months have shown us players like Kova and James are good enough at this level. 

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15 minutes ago, chelboy said:

RLC has been out for 12 months. No point judging him until he gets a full pre season at least. Kova played a role that was not needed against Villa. That’s not his fault. James missed the two friendlies we had and clearly looks behind with his sharpness. Gilmour had a awful half but I question where exactly he was playing and also his first start in 3 months against a physical Leicester midfield. Not easy for any teenager. Before the restart he looked far more comfortable.

Well I did say they shouldn't be getting more chances this season, nothing about next.

16 minutes ago, chelboy said:

You have forgotten to mention Rudiger who was poor in both H1 against Villa and Leicester and he is a fully grown international

Because I am not alone in thinking he played well against Leicester.

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IMO -  with Moyes not so happy hammers being like a house of cards, Frank should go all out attack and get an early goal and watch them fall.

 

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chelboy   
2 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Well I did say they shouldn't be getting more chances this season, nothing about next.

Because I am not alone in thinking he played well against Leicester.

We can’t keep the same 11 in every game with such a tight schedule. It’s not easy for players to gain match fitness and some will keep getting thrown in while looking rusty. 

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43 minutes ago, chelboy said:

We can’t keep the same 11 in every game with such a tight schedule. It’s not easy for players to gain match fitness and some will keep getting thrown in while looking rusty. 

I'm not sure who you are arguing with.  I've said Gilmour James and RLC are not in form and shouldn't start.  That leaves close to 20 other options.
And what do you mean gain match fitness?  Did no one tell them the season was about to restart?  Moreover the season is about to finish - this is the sharp end now.

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Ham   

I think that the Leicester game showed that Gilmour should only be used as an impact substitution in the second half until such time as he is fully ready to start. Leicester swarmed in the first 30 minutes and he couldn't cope with their physicality or the speed of the game.

Bring him on after 60 minutes in games we are winning and allow him to do his magic against teams that are no longer pressing high. 

 

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chelboy   
56 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I'm not sure who you are arguing with.  I've said Gilmour James and RLC are not in form and shouldn't start.  That leaves close to 20 other options.
And what do you mean gain match fitness?  Did no one tell them the season was about to restart?  Moreover the season is about to finish - this is the sharp end now.

 I don’t  think you can base those 45 mins on Gilmour and James and claim they are out of form. Until we see 70-90 mins performances it’s hard to know where they are at. As I said most players in our 1st game back against Villa played at a similar level to James and Gilmour in H1. The only difference was Leicester were sharper and better than Villa on that day. You could have hooked off Christensen or Rudiger against Villa at half time and claimed they are out of form only for them to drop a great performance in the next game against City.  

Match fitness/sharpness only gets gained through playing time. We need to be rotating while playing every 3 days. Looking back now, against Leicester only 2 or 3 out of James, Emerson , Zouma, Gilmour and Tammy should have started. The other 2 or 3 who didn’t start against Leicester should then start against West Ham. As long as 5-6 rusty players aren’t playing at the same time we should be ok. If we don’t give them a second chance they won’t get fit and when they come in to replace someone injured they would look even worse. 

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19 minutes ago, chelboy said:

 I don’t  think you can base those 45 mins on Gilmour and James and claim they are out of form. Until we see 70-90 mins performances it’s hard to know where they are at.

9 or 10 very very big games left.  Who cares if it is being harsh - they performed badly, the games are too important (and I think James is a great player and Gilmour was such fun to watch in his other 2 starts).

Get used to it - developing teams rotate a lot, teams out to win stuff rotate very very little.
 

21 minutes ago, chelboy said:

Match fitness/sharpness only gets gained through playing time.

a) it doesn't.  Look at Pulisic, first start since early jan,    b) if true then we don't have the time to waste on James, Gilmour and RLC, c) I don't even think match fitness was their problem.  Lets just call it form.

25 minutes ago, chelboy said:

We need to be rotating while playing every 3 days.

We don't.  Just the opposite - we need to stick to one core team.  This is not the time to be learning about our players.

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Blue Rod   

This is no time to throw in players who are way out of match fitness or physical fitness. Every match is a must win till end of season.  

James looked like lacking match fitness. He was running around making wrong decisions, losing possession in uncharacteristic situations for a defender, trying to do a 3 point turn on the edge of his box.

Gilmour looked out of position and disorientated against Leicester, failing to read the tempo or pressure that Leicester were applying on us in the middle. Somehow I think the coaches could have prepared him better for what he was going to come up against.

As for RLC, we'll, we can't have it both ways; that he is rusty because he hasn't played for 13 month, but must be given a chance. If he is rusty then that is exactly why he can't play. There is a place to brush off rustiness, and it is not in a tight must-win match against a tricky opponent. 

 

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