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JaneB

Chelsea 0 Liverpool 2

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8 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

I'd forgotten James.  They call it ball watching.  Trouble is for this goal James couldn't work out where Mane or the ball was going - until both converged a little in front of James.

I had hoped Ball watching and being out of position which were apparent last season would have been coached out of him by now 

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I cannot be arsed to write chapter and verse about the game, the easiest way to sum yesterday's performance pre and post christensen.

 

Must try harder - Tik Tok Frank  (Allegri, Poch, even Sarri to name a few, sitting at home twiddling their thumbs)

Edited by RobertoftheGiz

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11 hours ago, Ham said:

Aside from disagreeing on AC deliberately fouling Mane, I'm certain that if the roles were reversed, VAR wouldn't have made the same decision. They've have used Allison clearing the ball away as mitigation to give the yellow and everyone would have agreed and we'd have all moved on.  

Your argument is based on classic football fan paranoia imho.

Nonetheless,  show me an angle where he didn't foul him . It was a clear goal scoring opportunity and he knew he was behind both man and ball and knew he was beat.

He took one for the team. Pure and simple

We could have recovered but for the lame penalty kick 

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asvaberg   

I did not see the match, but I feel:

a) AC sacrificed himself - however, I concur his decision

b) Kepa mistake - yes, horrible, he knows is too and he will fight back

c) Jorginho missed a penalty - yes, horrible, but nothing extraordinary - it happends

d) THIS is the reason for us losing - and to a far better team (attached picture):

 

opta stat.JPG

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Holymoly   

After a night to get over it my initial reaction is to urge a bit of commonsense. We were up against a very good team (sorry have to pause here and vomit before carrying on) and many players were not available. That said I feel we were lucky to get away without a thumping.

The worrying thing I am seeing however since lockdown is that the manager appears to be expececting an inexperienced team to fit their style of play into a his template on a game by game basis. It doesn't work in Football Manager and it rarely works in the real world. I would prefer to see him adopt a policy of either playing the best players in their position or else adapt the style of play to those players he does have available. At the moment he seems to be selecting the players he wants to play then tries wedge them all into the team whether or not they are suited to the role or not.

Case in point Kante/Jorginho/ Kovacic in midfield and Mount/Werner /Havertz in attack. I'm not a manager with the requisite coaching badges but surely we would have been better served by playing a kosher striker like Abraham or Giroud, especially given the way we set up to play the game. An honest to god striker could have provided the out ball and held it up when we were breaking out from defense. Play Werner one side and CHO the other then EITHER Mount or Havertz behind. In these sorts of games I think Jorginho has no use as he isn't tough enough. I'd have played Kante and Kovacic in front of defense. The league is horses for courses, with our players you should be able to swap them around depending on the opposition.

I wonder if Frank isn't getting too close to the playing squad in Cobham, losing objectivity, and is mistaking "good trainers" for ideal players. It's all very well valuing guys that seem to rally the troops on the training pitch but if that goes out the window at the weekend when the chips are down its worthless. I'm pretty sure the only reason Jorginho was playing was because Azpilicueta was injured but if he can't make an impression in the game then its pointless having him there in the first place. Frank should know that it's one thing talking the talk but he needs players out there that produce when things get real. Giroud may not be a sexy multi million signing but he would have done a better job than the three false nines we had on the pitch yesterday.

Hopefully we can now go on a bit of a run now and some of the injured players get some time on the pitch. We need options and we need a manager that is prepared to use those options in the best way individual games demand.

Before the game I did say we would lose and be the butt end of some refereeing decisions so I'm not that surprised. OK the sending off was the correct decision and we did miss a penalty but it's a similar scenario. What irks me however is that I don't think we had the right players on the pitch to play the way we were set up for.

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8 hours ago, Lump Of Celery said:

The usual suspect Kovacic that was recently named player of the season...

That is a real headscratcher. For me he wasn’t even among the five best players last season. 

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I know we have key players missing but Frank really needs to decide on a formation and a way to play, with his best players on the pitch playing in their best positions. 

He chopped and changed almost every other game last season and I can't see how it helps anybody. 

His biggest problem is he is still learning, he doesn't even know if the way he wants to play will be successful. We need to get back to basics, get them right and go from there. It's like we play a different system every other week.

After the restart it appeared he wanted to play Kante as a DM with two number 8's, playing Kante there is not something I agree with but that's not the point, we must have spent weeks training this way only for it to be completely abandoned. We also switched between 5 at the back and 4 far too much last season, again the time spent on the training ground to implement one system one week then to change it the following week doesnt make sense.

The most important thing for us right now is to get a settled formation, a fairly settled first 11 and work on a system of play. It is far easier to change a player or two and try to play the same way rather than changing the whole system each week.

2 of Kovacic, Jorgino and Kante need to play. It's pretty much Kante plus one. Then he needs to decide if we play an 8 or 10 and either way that has to be Mount or Havertz. After that the front 3 is pretty straight forward and can be rotated as much as necessary. 

 

 

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Ham   
1 hour ago, r.bartlett said:

Your argument is based on classic football fan paranoia imho.

Nonetheless,  show me an angle where he didn't foul him . It was a clear goal scoring opportunity and he knew he was behind both man and ball and knew he was beat.

He took one for the team. Pure and simple

We could have recovered but for the lame penalty kick 

It's not really. The reason he actually falls on Mane is because his foot is knocked aside in mid air by Mane taking one step left to initiate contact. It's very subtle. 

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8 hours ago, Ham said:

(Droy)No wonder we end up having so many arguments on here when he gets POTY because Kante was injured so he could play in a position suited for him.

Your point being? He WAS the player of the year for the vast majority of Chelsea fans everywhere. Are we all wrong? 

Yes - that is pretty much how I saw it written up - the Humble Majesty that is Klopp is to be praised for reminding his team not to cheer when mane gets a man sent off.
Could have been interpreted differently...

As could the need for a red card after Kepa got to the ball. 

My point being he wasn't particularly good, nor was he ever picked as first choice on merit more than half a dozen times in the season.  SFL thought Mount, Jorginho and Kante were all better than him.
But for some reason people celebrated because he wasn't picked in the wrong position as he was under Sarri.
My point being that some people - many people - aren't much interested in what players actually do.

As could.....   quite

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bert19   
41 minutes ago, Holymoly said:

After a night to get over it my initial reaction is to urge a bit of commonsense. We were up against a very good team (sorry have to pause here and vomit before carrying on) and many players were not available. That said I feel we were lucky to get away without a thumping.

 

All in all, I think you've made some very good points (and made them well) here.  

For me, one of the most concerning things about yesterday, is the three players that made the three mistakes that really did us damage (Kepa, Christensen & Jorginho) shouldn't have been starting anyway. 

The first two just aren't good enough at all (and we knew that well before kick off yesterday) and the third is a horse for a specific course.  In games where we don't dictate possession, he's a passenger.  Barkley or Mount would have been much better options as part of that midfield three. 

The Christensen thing is a worry for me though.  I don't know what it is that Frank sees in him that (seemingly) rewards him with starts whenever fit, but it clearly doesn't translate into performances on the pitch.  He doesn't do anything that wins us games and he makes mistakes that cost us points far too often (I know, not just him to be fair).  Unless everyone else is injured, why is he starting? He's had more than enough chances now and he hasn't taken them. 

That sort of loyalty to a clearly underperforming player or players tends to lead to inevitable outcomes for managers. I'm a bit concerned by it if I'm honest. 

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