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JaneB

Chelsea 0 Liverpool 2

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6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

A lot of really good points being made here , my worry is , how come we can see them and Lamps can't ?

When you consider how much Leeds put Liverpool under pressure with a much weaker (on paper) side , I cannot help that we approached this game in a much too cautious manner.

My issue is , what must Giroud and Tammy and Barkley and Rudiger be thinking , deemed not good enough to start and having to watch a very poor performance from their replacements ?

The midfield three is an absolute nonsense , if you must have a three , have Kante to chase things down , Kova or Jorgi to tidy up and Havertz to play as an 8 , getting forward and springing attacks ,yesterday the three of them were a joke , Havertz must be heart broken he's had two games now , played in a position where he's been negated from the start .

God knows what Werner must think ? I'm guessing he thinks Lampard thinks he's Hazard and can win games on his own and do everything 

Many , many posters on here have questioned the inclusion of both Christensen and Kepa and yet they still keep being picked and still don't improve an iota. 

I've watched a lot of football on TV and we are easily one of the worst sides to watch , the most incoherent and unimpressive and I include teams who are getting whooped in that too .

It's a worry .

 

I agree I don’t know what Lampard expected to happen with that starting 11. Havertz or any attacking presence for that matter needs to be included in the midfield 3 - we’ve seen Kova, Kante and Jorginho far too many times - it’s crying out for someone like havertz in there to link midfield and attack.

All I can imagine Lampard was thinking is looking back at the games we had against Liverpool last season and often had them on the back foot with those 3 in the middle - ultimately, we still lost those games though...

You’d hope we’ll have a more progressive approach against WBA but I think we need to start seeing this against the bigger teams as well. I hope yesterday’s caution was due to the injury list rather than an actual approach we will see throughout the season.

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1 hour ago, Martin1905 said:

I know we have key players missing but Frank really needs to decide on a formation and a way to play, with his best players on the pitch playing in their best positions. 

He chopped and changed almost every other game last season and I can't see how it helps anybody. 

His biggest problem is he is still learning, he doesn't even know if the way he wants to play will be successful. We need to get back to basics, get them right and go from there. It's like we play a different system every other week.

After the restart it appeared he wanted to play Kante as a DM with two number 8's, playing Kante there is not something I agree with but that's not the point, we must have spent weeks training this way only for it to be completely abandoned. We also switched between 5 at the back and 4 far too much last season, again the time spent on the training ground to implement one system one week then to change it the following week doesnt make sense.

The most important thing for us right now is to get a settled formation, a fairly settled first 11 and work on a system of play. It is far easier to change a player or two and try to play the same way rather than changing the whole system each week.

2 of Kovacic, Jorgino and Kante need to play. It's pretty much Kante plus one. Then he needs to decide if we play an 8 or 10 and either way that has to be Mount or Havertz. After that the front 3 is pretty straight forward and can be rotated as much as necessary. 

 

 

Completely agree with this.

Somehow he needs to figure out a formation for us and then stick to it as a base case scenario. 

For me that’s a 433/4231 with the following players as the platform;

James, Azpilicueta, Chilwell, Silva, Zouma, Tomori, Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho, Havertz, Mount, Pulisic, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Werner, Abraham, Giroud

 

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Holymoly   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

The only thing pulling back Mane is Christensen's armpit suction - because Mane has managed to get underneath him.

 

 

Mmm... armpit suction. Mmm... moist.

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Holymoly   
36 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Completely agree with this.

Somehow he needs to figure out a formation for us and then stick to it as a base case scenario. 

For me that’s a 433/4231 with the following players as the platform;

James, Azpilicueta, Chilwell, Silva, Zouma, Tomori, Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho, Havertz, Mount, Pulisic, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Werner, Abraham, Giroud

 

I think you may be right. If we started with all 17 on the pitch we may have given the scum a run for their money.

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51 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

Completely agree with this.

Somehow he needs to figure out a formation for us and then stick to it as a base case scenario. 

For me that’s a 433/4231 with the following players as the platform;

James, Azpilicueta, Chilwell, Silva, Zouma, Tomori, Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho, Havertz, Mount, Pulisic, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Werner, Abraham, Giroud

 

Take your platform for the season (I'd stick Rudiger in for someone but whatever).
Yet Alonso has started 2 games, RLC one, and Barkley come on twice.
I can't imagine Conte or JM bothering with players outside the core in the first two games.  Certainly not in season 2.
 

It is development squad coaching,

Edited by Droy was my hero

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Jasonb   

First half I thought we did ok, though didn't like the defending so deep yet we contained them.

Going forward Werner should have put us a goal ahead. The ball from Kovacic especially, either poor touch or he makes the wrong decision.

We left Henderson unmarked running up the middle to play a defense splitting pass and AC panics getting a red.

Then Kepa's poor clearance to Mane, that put us in the doodoo, 1-0 down against the champions with just 10.

We didn't fold yet we conceded another, Alonso was nowhere near Firminho who picks out Mane with James marking space. 

Given the injury situation think Frank needs a pass on this one.

Some positives:

Kovacic two good lay-offs from his runs.

Kante seems back to fitness (less sure whether he is really the right fit for a Frank side.)

Kepa, mistake a side had a better game.

Havertz great free kick yet only Alonso moved??

Tomori looked ok coming on from the subs bench.

Next up Barnsley,  want to see CHO start,  is he a busted flush or a real talent, lets give him the chance to show what he can do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

 

It is development squad coaching,

It's also why everyone else looks better prepared and a more cohesive unit than we do , they're generally being coached a system that suits the players they have in their squad .

We are chopping and changing like the Worlds biggest "Championship Manager" simulation and look dreadful in every department because of it .

Frank needs to pick a system , train that system , coach the players be able to play in a few different positions and stick with it , let other sides worry about beating Chelsea not work out how we can best them. 

If he doesn't fix up soon something unpleasant will happen even if all his "good" players are out he needs to integrate the less good ones into the side in as seamlessly way as possible.

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Just read an interesting piece in one of the papers. Kepa's and Willy's shots on target saved  have been lower when being managed by FL than under other Chelsea managers or at their provious clubs.

Kepa: A Bilbao 68.2% for 2 seasons, Chelsea 1st season 67.5%, 2nd season 54.5%

Willy:  Elche for 6 seasons  average 71%, Malage 74% 4 seasons,  Man City 72.6% 3 seasons, Chelsea 1st 2 seasons 78.2%. last season 56.3%

Scott Carson overall average 71.5%, under FL at Derby 66%.

copy/pasted this bit...

 

A pattern begins to emerge. The data set is not huge, so there must be caveats, but it appears that when Frank Lampard is in charge goalkeepers save fewer shots. There may be all kinds of reasons for that to do with coaching and man-management, but there is also a basic issue to do with how his sides play. Lampard teams concede a disproportionate number of two particular types of goal: crossed set plays and counterattacks. Both leave a goalkeeper exposed, both yield chances that are relatively easier for the attacking player to convert – close-range headers and one-on-ones. Not all shots are equal

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27 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Take your platform for the season (I'd stick Rudiger in for someone but whatever).
Yet Alonso has started 2 games, RLC one, and Barkley come on twice.
I can't imagine Conte or JM bothering with players outside the core in the first two games.  Certainly not in season 2.
 

It is development squad coaching,

Dam - I agree with you

You only have to look at Achelloti. Went in set the team up to play his formation, found out the duds who could not play his system and replaced them. They may not win anything but you see the Ancelotti TM all over the team. 

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1 hour ago, The_Ghost said:

Completely agree with this.

Somehow he needs to figure out a formation for us and then stick to it as a base case scenario. 

For me that’s a 433/4231 with the following players as the platform;

James, Azpilicueta, Chilwell, Silva, Zouma, Tomori, Kante, Kovacic, Jorginho, Havertz, Mount, Pulisic, Ziyech, Hudson-Odoi, Werner, Abraham, Giroud

 

 

20 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

It's also why everyone else looks better prepared and a more cohesive unit than we do , they're generally being coached a system that suits the players they have in their squad .

We are chopping and changing like the Worlds biggest "Championship Manager" simulation and look dreadful in every department because of it .

Frank needs to pick a system , train that system , coach the players be able to play in a few different positions and stick with it , let other sides worry about beating Chelsea not work out how we can best them. 

If he doesn't fix up soon something unpleasant will happen even if all his "good" players are out he needs to integrate the less good ones into the side in as seamlessly way as possible.

This is a very English football view though. If you look at Serie A, its quite common for managers to change their tactics/formations on a game by game basis. The league is far more tactical in Italy, the plan changes by the week to counter who the opposition is for that specific game. I quite like that Frank has shown this so far, it has not always worked, but then it has worked really well at times and we have looked a coherent and well drilled unit. You only have to look at Spurs and Ajax away last season as two good examples, plus half time changes he made in the Arsenal away game. Things have not looked great in two games so far this season (though his tactics yesterday may have worked if we stayed 11 a side), but we have got positive results and performances through changing tactics and formations for specific games.

3 minutes ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

Dam - I agree with you

You only have to look at Achelloti. Went in set the team up to play his formation, found out the duds who could not play his system and replaced them. They may not win anything but you see the Ancelotti TM all over the team. 

This example had its ceiling though didn't it. We all remember Ancelotti's bad moment which seem to last for about 20 games, we played terrible in the majority of those 20 games and he picked the same eleven and in the same shape every week...........he was fired not long after on a sunny afternoon in Merseyside!

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