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JaneB

West Bromwich Albion 3 Chelsea 3

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Ham   
18 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

My guess is that if Frank wasn't happy with what Jodi was 'offering', then Jodi wouldn't be there. 

I don't think it would be Frank's decision. 

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3 minutes ago, Ham said:

I don't think it would be Frank's decision. 

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Jody has been Frank's assistant across 2 clubs now, which should tell us something. 

Jody isn't everybody's cup of tea (and there were times as a player, when he embarrassed himself), but he's done a pretty decent job at coaching, I would have thought. Let's not forget that he was successful as head coach of Chelsea's Academy sides from 2014 to 2018. 

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chara   
43 minutes ago, Michael Tucker said:

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Jody has been Frank's assistant across 2 clubs now, which should tell us something. 

Jody isn't everybody's cup of tea (and there were times as a player, when he embarrassed himself), but he's done a pretty decent job at coaching, I would have thought. Let's not forget that he was successful as head coach of Chelsea's Academy sides from 2014 to 2018. 

I think that is part of the concern MT....the Academy success, which is commendable, may not relate to top level coaching..may not I said...not does not.

Steve Clarke and Holland ...there was an awareness among us..I think..that they contributed greatly...Zola..well loved but in truth probably not a good #2....

We don't know of course and again probably my bias is reflected in your comment re embarrassing himself....again sheer bias and gut feeling without proof.

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27 minutes ago, chara said:

I think that is part of the concern MT....the Academy success, which is commendable, may not relate to top level coaching..may not I said...not does not.

Mate, he can only do what he's given the opportunity to do. And from what I saw, he did it very well at Chelsea, and has clearly impressed Frank since. He's made it clear that one day, he wants a head coach role. Whether that will come, or indeed when and where, I have no idea. 

27 minutes ago, chara said:

We don't know of course and again probably my bias is reflected in your comment re embarrassing himself....again sheer bias and gut feeling without proof.

I can't judge Morris on what he did as a young man. He made mistakes, surely, but that was then, and this is now, and he seems from what I've seen of him, to have sorted himself out. None of us can know for sure, of course. Personally, I doubt that Frank's an idiot, or would knowingly let anything/anyone drag him down. If he believes in JM (which he certainly appears to) then until something else happens, that will do me :).        

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chara   
1 hour ago, Michael Tucker said:

Mate, he can only do what he's given the opportunity to do. And from what I saw, he did it very well at Chelsea, and has clearly impressed Frank since. He's made it clear that one day, he wants a head coach role. Whether that will come, or indeed when and where, I have no idea. 

I can't judge Morris on what he did as a young man. He made mistakes, surely, but that was then, and this is now, and he seems from what I've seen of him, to have sorted himself out. None of us can know for sure, of course. Personally, I doubt that Frank's an idiot, or would knowingly let anything/anyone drag him down. If he believes in JM (which he certainly appears to) then until something else happens, that will do me :).        

May sound strange but I do pretty much agree with your views and certainly respect them...I just can't shake off some doubts about the coaching approach and whilst at times,especially early last season, there were signs of an exciting playing style emerging that seemed to regress.

Off at a tangent...were you able to follow the restart of last season and the start of this one?...the last Chelsea game I watched from a hospital bed was the Stoke goal from the halfway line..thought I was still under the "chemicals"!!!!

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Blue Rod   
7 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Jody has been Frank's assistant across 2 clubs now, which should tell us something. 

Jody isn't everybody's cup of tea (and there were times as a player, when he embarrassed himself), but he's done a pretty decent job at coaching, I would have thought. Let's not forget that he was successful as head coach of Chelsea's Academy sides from 2014 to 2018. 

I don’t rate either of them,  don't think they're up to the job they've taken on. But Jodi Morris won something with the youth, and did so playing football that was consistent in quality and made a lot more sense than what we're witnessing from our first team these days.  People seem to be confusing Frank Lampard the coach with Frank Lampard the footballer. The former has very little to boast about. 

Funny that people who talk down Jodi Morris also give Lampard the credit for "developing youth"  Excuse me, but if anyone has developed young players of the two, it's Jodi Morris. I actually think many if not all of them are playing worse since they came under Lampard. 

 

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Holymoly   
9 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

Jody isn't everybody's cup of tea (and there were times as a player, when he embarrassed himself), but he's done a pretty decent job at coaching, I would have thought. Let's not forget that he was successful as head coach of Chelsea's Academy sides from 2014 to 2018. 

I think there is a lot of difference between coaching youth sides and coaching top level professional players. Firstly if the coach used to be a player and a fairly average one at that the pros probably will take what he tells them with a bit of a grain of sand whereas to youth players he is still someone to look up to as he made it in the pro game. The other thing to bear in mind is that youth sides very often appear to play as a collection of good players rather than a collective. Therefore the coaching tends to be more about developing individual skills and attributes. In the first team those tend to be a given and it becomes the challenge to make them work together for the greater good.

I'm not going to rubbish Jody however as I believe him to be a huge support for SFL. What I think we do need however is a bona fide defensive minded tactician that can organise our players into a collective even greater than the sum of its parts. All too often over the last 15 months I have seen the players switch off and revert to automatic pilot. This was exemplified when Thiago Silva lost the ball leading to the second goal. He will have known that the Premiership is far faster and tighter than he has been used to and he guarded against that for the entire game save that one moment when he switched off. WBA pounced on him giving him no opportunity to recover. Silva is a good player and that one moment doesn't make him a busted flush but he is unused to being switched on the entire game and he allowed autopilot to kick in for a split second. We need coaches that can imprint that neccessity into the players. We need coaches that can convey set piece strategies in a way the team can understand and utilise.

As far as Frank is concerned I'm not too worried about his ability to make a fist of this in the long term as you do see his subsitutions make a positive impact more often than not. What I do think he needs to work on is being more positive with his initial team selection and tactics. He needs to stop worrying so much about what the opposition is going to do and focusing on ways to counteract it. Rather he should make the opposition worry more about what we are going to bring to the game and make them do the reacting. That will only come with time and confidence but he now has the players that should make the opposiing teams fearful and he should capitalise on that. But he needs the right people behind him.

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3 hours ago, Blue Rod said:

I don’t rate either of them,  don't think they're up to the job they've taken on. But Jodi Morris won something with the youth, and did so playing football that was consistent in quality and made a lot more sense than what we're witnessing from our first team these days.  People seem to be confusing Frank Lampard the coach with Frank Lampard the footballer. The former has very little to boast about. 

Funny that people who talk down Jodi Morris also give Lampard the credit for "developing youth"  Excuse me, but if anyone has developed young players of the two, it's Jodi Morris. I actually think many if not all of them are playing worse since they came under Lampard. 

 

I don't think its credit for developing them to this point as such. Its credit for giving them a chance and potentially developing from that moment of being given a chance.

Clearly, the development of the players before Lampard gave them first team opportunities and the credit for that lays with the coaches involved and players themselves to some degree.

Highly likely that we will not have seen Mount , Abraham, James etc be first team squad regulars now without Frank though. 

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JaneB   
11 hours ago, Michael Tucker said:

My guess is that if Frank wasn't happy with what Jodi was 'offering', then Jodi wouldn't be there. 

and if Frank refuses to change the coaching, Frank might not be there much longer either.

It seems to me that there are good arguments to say that the coaching staff we have are not up to the task of guiding a PL team to narrow victories against teams managed by top managers and experienced coaching teams.

But more obviously it is just clear that the players don't look like they have been coached well.  There are first halves of incredible naivety.  There is a complete lack of organisation for corners at both ends (the easiest thing to observe).  
The coaching is poor, many established players have played particularly poorly under the current coaches, and the sum of the players is considerably more than the performances to date.

Whether this is down to Frank's coaching, his choice of staff or someone else's choice is pretty irrelevant.
 

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