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JaneB

Everton 1 Chelsea 0

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14 minutes ago, GURJ SS said:

I hope this forum continues to be a place where people can express their opinion without being attacked for it, disagreements are part of debates, debates are what increases knowledge on matters.

In regards to us only being 3 points off the top, it sounds ok when put like that, but we really could have done what Leicester City did when they won it and taken advantage of everyone else misfiring, but we ended up misfiring too and that is what will cost us as the season goes on, and 22 points from 12 points is poor form. My main worry though is that we seem to have too many players who are content with passing the responsibility on when faced with a chance to dribble: too many of our players are so reluctant to pick the pace up and have a go at the opposition. For example:

Ziyech relies on someone making a run and him picking them out - that's normally the style of a player who plays a Cesc role. Havertz wants someone to make a run to find with a through ball and again that's the role of a Cesc or Modric. Both aren't able to defend to the ability that we can commit our centre mids to make runs into advanced positions or play them both in central positions, that means two players in advanced positions who aren't going to do what Pulisic and Odi would do, which is move into dangerous positions to try and help the striker score a goal, and if that fails beat 1-2 people and get a shot off. Mount has the right balance, he tries to find a teammate or have a go, yes he can sometimes rush it but he has another game plan if a pass isn't on. Havertz for some bizarre reason is being used as a number 8 to circulate possession now, when for his previous team he was basically a supporting striker who got into the box.

I honestly think if we had last season's attack with this season's defensive organisation (basically Silva) we'd be top of the league. We looked dangerous in attack last season with players who wanted to put opposition's defenders off balance and facing their own goals. This season we have players who are 1v1 and turn their back on the opposition. We all had our frustrations with Willian going sideways too many times, but he was direct as Pulisic and Odoi combined when compared to Ziyech and Havertz. Disclaimer: I'm not doubting the quality of Ziyech and Havertz, I'm doubting Lamps in finding the right balance of those who move the ball by passing and those who move it by running with it.

You make some good points here Gurj and I made the point about Ziyech a week or so ago, he needs to start mixing it up a bit, he ha already started to become very predictable, you know that 9/10 he will want to cut in on to his left, outside the box and get a cross in and if he's forced to go on the outside, he will as you say, wait for support to arrive and overlap or slow it down and pass back or to the side. He's clearly talented and his crossing ability is superb, but he needs to take more chances on the outside, maybe it's something he'd do more of if he was on the left, maybe he can swap wings from time to time?

As for Havertz, I think he desperately needs to get one Pulisic had last season and that's a run of games on the bench, watching the game, learning and getting an understanding of this league and the way it's played so he can adapt to it with small cameo appearances until he is really ready to step in - he has the same problem Pulisic had though, that he is being forced to play every week due to injuries.

I think, once CHO is fit, he should probably be given a run of games and give Werner a chance down the middle, I think CHO gives us a lot more natural width and will pull defenders out wide, creating the space for Werner to run through.

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chara   
6 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Maybe, maybe not but I m talking about all those moaning about the negativity on here when an awful lot of them were the most negative ones regarding the year under Sarri.

OK...I try to stay out of the rough stuff and despair when I read comments from posters who have so much sense and knowledge to offer on here.

If my attempts to calm things and bring hopefully a bit more politeness to the forum are seen as "moaning about negativity" then I am guilty as charged.

There is a fine but well defined line between robust debate and outright nastiness......With very few exceptions...well only one comes to mind.not been seen of late.....all posters on here have a viewpoints of interest and worthy of discussion...it's "The Intelligent Forum" not the sub world of the DM comments.

The discussions are usually down to half full/half empty.......and amazing flights of fancy when something takes off and everyone runs with it...must drive the mods crazy but something unique I think.

Many years ago as a young SB attendee my mate and I would stand on the old West terrace choosing a spot where some notable comedians gathered......part .of the match day magic and a source of smiles even if things were not so smiley on the pitch.

At it's best the Forum recreates that atmosphere..at it's worst it shames us as a group,

 

 

Edited by chara

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paulw66   
8 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

So now some of us do not understand football, need a slap, are trolls and are not actual chelsea supporters?

The moderators are very quick to moan about those with a differing opinion, jump on one particular poster whenever he says anything they dont like, yet these sort of comments, that happen daily get the typical 'Good post' 'Agree with you there mate' bullshit.

 

This is 2020, mate. Don't go along with the narrative, and you get hounded out, particularly with political opinions (not going to offer any)

8 hours ago, Chrisb said:

I’ll agree that there have been a few poor games this season but your stat of “74 games 54% win ratio” has to be put in context. 
Out of interest what was Klopp’s win ratio with the dippers after 74 games? What was Guardiola’s with City? 
My point being is look what happened with them. This instant success is something I believe is impossible to achieve, it took time for both of them to build a squad capable of winning the league. We were a long way from that when Frank took over.

 I can’t change your opinion and I won’t belittle your beliefs but I do think that you are expecting the impossible.

Irrelevant, IMO. Using someone else's perceived failings to justify your own is no defence at all 

7 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Its brilliant, some of those, quite a lot I would say,  that moan about the negativity and how it is ruining this forum were the most negative about Sarri.

I await the excuses......

Again, much like left versus right. 

7 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

You know who didn't buy into Sarri Martin?

The players , gave it half a season and then reverted to Hazardball for the rest of it. 

This is the kind of thing I just don't get, and it shows how opinions on the football are driven by whether you like the manager.

Sarri loses. Damn Sarriball. Sarri wins. Players aren't playing it. Comedic gold. 

7 hours ago, Holymoly said:

Like I said, cherry picking stats.

How about comparing it with contemporary performances of the rest of the league? You may as well make comparisons with teams of the 1920s using your approach. At some point you have to draw a line and accept that the football of 2020 is different from that of even just a few years ago. The reason Leicester won the league wasn't because they produced world beating stats, rather they were just slightly better than the opposition that year. This year seems to be shaping up similarly if you ask me. There is no club head and shoulders above everyone else and accordingly the results are being shared around more.

Stop looking at numbers and appreciate the football. When we win rejoice and when we lose maybe throw your slippers at the TV but don't go chucking your toys out of the pram demanding wholesale sackings.

Note to self. Not allowed to criticise when Frank is in charge. 

Again, using someone else's perceived failings to justify your own is no defence at all. We spent 200-250m (whatever it was) and we are on course for a pro rata improvement of 4 points. That isn't good enough 

5 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

They didn't play particularly poorly they just ditched Sarriball for Hazardball , but you knew this already . 

 

When did we ditch Sarriball? Presume when we finished 3rd and won the Europa league and the Sarri out brigade couldn't think of anything else to throw at him? 

"oh sh*t, we finished the season well.........what do we say now???? er, well.......they weren't playing Sarriball!" 

4 hours ago, Rob B said:

What is this new obsession with beating teams inside the top 10 all about??  

Well, half our games (or just under) are against the top 10. If we can't beat any, that is going to make life very hard if we want to achieve anything. I mean scoring against a decent side would be a start. 

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^^^^^

Southampton are a decent side and we got three past them.

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paulw66   
15 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

^^^^^

Southampton are a decent side and we got three past them.

whoo hoo. and p*ssed it away. 

 

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Ham   

Didn't we consign some to the bottom half by beating them and denying them the points? 

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33 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

When did we ditch Sarriball? Presume when we finished 3rd and won the Europa league and the Sarri out brigade couldn't think of anything else to throw at him? 

Frank did - about 15 months later, when he committed himself to Zouma and Kante playing triangles at the back, making Sarriball impossible.
But most of last season was an attempt at playing precisely Sarriball.

 

4 minutes ago, Ham said:

Didn't we consign some to the bottom half by beating them and denying them the points? 

Good argument after 4 or 5 games.  It was reasonable to assume that teams we had thumped like Sheffield United might well get better, so that by now they'd be top half.
But....

29 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

^^^^^

Southampton are a decent side and we got three past them.

Yeah, that was in our "lets thump the small team days".  

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chara   
4 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

whoo hoo. and p*ssed it away. 

 

True,,,but not for the first time and not only Chelsea do that.....3-0 up with..what?..6 minutes on the clock?......For overall strength of competition the EPL is probably the strongest League in the game....the football quality can be discussed but that is not the point...Fulham/Liverpool this weekend as an easy example...be headlines in La Liga etc.

With all the pros and cons of Franks performance any stats and spending have to take into account the progress or lack of it with the rest of the league.

So often it's the oversimplification of stats etc that muddy the arguments......games in the past for Chelsea....two attempts on goal..2-0 up...was a time when Chelsea would do that and just keep the opposition at bay...stats show two shots on goal...again oversimplified but the beauty of the game is that golden moment by Hazard for example that turns a game on it's head..the flip side is a silly error as on Saturday that conceded a penalty and changed the game...that's why we watch the game..the randomness of the swings.

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10 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

So now some of us do not understand football, need a slap, are trolls and are not actual chelsea supporters?

The moderators are very quick to moan about those with a differing opinion, jump on one particular poster whenever he says anything they dont like, yet these sort of comments, that happen daily get the typical 'Good post' 'Agree with you there mate' bullshit.

You might not think the insults are that bad but I tell you something. As a season ticket holder for over 20 years and someone that goes to pretty much every game, home and away all across Europe, calling me a troll, claiming that I m a pretend Chelsea fan that doesnt understand football or insisting I need a slap is just about the most insulting thing you could possibly say to me on a Chelsea forum.

Yesterday it was 'I m sick of you constantly chasing negativity ' from a mod  and today Droy has just been warned by the top man for  telling someone to 'stick to what you understand' yet all the popular, regular posters get away with far more, on a daily basis.

If it wasnt for the fact that nobody, anywhere tells me what I can say or do I would have been gone a long time ago. It's no coincidence that anyone who does not agree with the clique on here have either left, been banned or just hardly post anymore. 

Fair play, Martin. 

6 hours ago, Rob B said:

Because it feels like the anti-Lampard brigade clinging onto a stat to discredit him to me. 

Does anyone really think there's an "anti-Lampard brigade", here or anywhere else in Chelsea's support? That seems pretty laughable to me. What criticism there is of Lampard here is probably the least aggressive I've seen for any manager or player in my 10 or so years posting here.

4 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Martin, it's no good us all getting riled up about it, we all want the best for the squad and the club and each of us have our own view on things I bet there aren't two people on here who agree 100 % about everything except maybe DWMH and TVF (joke! Before anyone gets offended ). 

There's being offended (not sure this forum's ever quite managed that for me) and being bored. Some jokes are boring. 

Personally, I think we're underperforming and passing up a big opportunity this year so far. 

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36 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Does anyone really think there's an "anti-Lampard brigade", here or anywhere else in Chelsea's support? That seems pretty laughable to me. What criticism there is of Lampard here is probably the least aggressive I've seen for any manager or player in my 10 or so years posting here.

You either blame the anti-Lampard brigade or write about the evidence.  It is the easy way out - very modern.
Certainly we have won leagues with more aggressive posting.  Grant.

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