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JaneB

Wolverhampton Wanderers 2 Chelsea 1

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7 hours ago, chara said:

No Mark...quite the opposite...I was shocked to read he was somewhat disgusted at the weak refereeing and the fact Neto got away with a dive and then scored...strange times indeed.

If you mean he would have got booked then so what? He would still have been available to score his goal.

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9 hours ago, PeteRobbo said:

In fact all he was doing was celebrating his goal. Had nothing to do with the previous incident.

Sorry mate I think you're looking through old gold tinted spectacles! 

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2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Sorry mate I think you're looking through old gold tinted spectacles! 

No way Mark. I really don't understand what you're saying at all. The player had just scored what was virtually certain to be the winning goal and well, what a surprise, he celebrated doing so. It had nothing to do with any vindication for anything which happened previously. I think you said he felt vindicated for not being booked? What is all that about? What difference would it have made if he had been booked? None that I can see, so I think you've lost the plot here. I reckon you're making something out of nothing because of your frustration at us losing the match and you did something similar after the Everton defeat too when you said they'd done nothing in the game. That wasn't true. They played a counter-attacking game very well and they executed their game plan better than we did our own. In Wolves case, as I remarked during the match, they did nothing in the first half which is routine for them when playing 3 at the back. Then, as usual, they came forward far more, particularly in the last 30 minutes, when Podence and Neto caused us a lot of problems.

I reckon you've been flexing your time-honoured persecution complex and come up with a complete red herring here. It might have been different if a red card had been a possibility, but a booking which wasn't even awarded? I don't understand the relevance of that at all.

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58 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

No way Mark. I really don't understand what you're saying at all. The player had just scored what was virtually certain to be the winning goal and well, what a surprise, he celebrated doing so. It had nothing to do with any vindication for anything which happened previously. I think you said he felt vindicated for not being booked? What is all that about? What difference would it have made if he had been booked? None that I can see, so I think you've lost the plot here. I reckon you're making something out of nothing because of your frustration at us losing the match and you did something similar after the Everton defeat too when you said they'd done nothing in the game. That wasn't true. They played a counter-attacking game very well and they executed their game plan better than we did our own. In Wolves case, as I remarked during the match, they did nothing in the first half which is routine for them when playing 3 at the back. Then, as usual, they came forward far more, particularly in the last 30 minutes, when Podence and Neto caused us a lot of problems.

I reckon you've been flexing your time-honoured persecution complex and come up with a complete red herring here. It might have been different if a red card had been a possibility, but a booking which wasn't even awarded? I don't understand the relevance of that at all.

Not quite Pete.  You said Everton were better than us in all departments. They literally got everyone behind the ball and hoofed it upfield.

The assist for their penalty was from the goalkeeper. They were atrocious. 

On Neto, I got the feeling he was trying to make some point about scoring despite being "unfairly" refused a penalty earlier. In reality he was a disgusting cheat who got caught.

Most players would have held their hands up, smiled at the ref and said "my bad. There was no contact".  He was so deceitful that he continued to play the victim afterwards despite having dived. 

But you keep on bigging up the opposition to be contrary. 👍

 

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2 hours ago, PeteRobbo said:

No way Mark. I really don't understand what you're saying at all. The player had just scored what was virtually certain to be the winning goal and well, what a surprise, he celebrated doing so. It had nothing to do with any vindication for anything which happened previously. I think you said he felt vindicated for not being booked? What is all that about? What difference would it have made if he had been booked? None that I can see, so I think you've lost the plot here. I reckon you're making something out of nothing because of your frustration at us losing the match and you did something similar after the Everton defeat too when you said they'd done nothing in the game. That wasn't true. They played a counter-attacking game very well and they executed their game plan better than we did our own. In Wolves case, as I remarked during the match, they did nothing in the first half which is routine for them when playing 3 at the back. Then, as usual, they came forward far more, particularly in the last 30 minutes, when Podence and Neto caused us a lot of problems.

I reckon you've been flexing your time-honoured persecution complex and come up with a complete red herring here. It might have been different if a red card had been a possibility, but a booking which wasn't even awarded? I don't understand the relevance of that at all.

Sorry Pete 

In my opinion, Neto felt he'd been hard done by with the penalty when he'd dived. The over the top celebration was all about that for me and it seems for Ham too. 

This, doesn't negate the fact that in a game where we looked absolutely devoid of guile and Wolves took their chances when afforded them, we deserved to lose. 

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2 hours ago, Ham said:

Not quite Pete.  You said Everton were better than us in all departments. They literally got everyone behind the ball and hoofed it upfield.

The assist for their penalty was from the goalkeeper. They were atrocious. 

On Neto, I got the feeling he was trying to make some point about scoring despite being "unfairly" refused a penalty earlier. In reality he was a disgusting cheat who got caught.

Most players would have held their hands up, smiled at the ref and said "my bad. There was no contact".  He was so deceitful that he continued to play the victim afterwards despite having dived. 

But you keep on bigging up the opposition to be contrary. 👍

 

Yeh, re: your your point that Neto may have been referring to being denied a penalty you may well be right there. I realised that was Mark's meaning, (I think), after I'd replied to him. I had been confused by his reference to “not being booked” which I didn’t see the relevance of.

Was he a “disgusting cheat”? I don't know for sure. Certainly I agree that the replays we saw suggested that there had been no contact, but there was a missing view from behind Neto I thought, which offered the possibility that our defender might have caught his heel. I'm not saying he did, I'm just saying I didn't see a clear enough picture from behind Neto to be sure. Added to that, Neto may have genuinely thought he'd been clipped whether he had been or not and there may have been contact as I've described from our defender which was unintentional. I know that a number of Wolves fans, (unsurprisingly), asked the question of why Neto would have dived when he was obviously inside the penalty area and in a position to take a shot. That's a reasonable questionI think..

Alternatively, of course, your view that Neto dived may also be true. At any rate, his winning goal was excellent and it came in the 95th minute, which meant it was pretty much guaranteed to be the winner so I think it hardly surprising that he celebrated wildly anyway.

With reference to the Everton game? I said they were better all over the field I think and I reckon I'm prepared to stick with that view significantly because we were so bad and had so many under-performing players. Everton set up to counter attack of course and there's nothing wrong with that. I thought they came forward quite a lot. Certainly I remember being nervous a lot of the time from their forays into our half, whereas I didn't see us look like scoring on many occasions at all.

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1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

Sorry Pete 

In my opinion, Neto felt he'd been hard done by with the penalty when he'd dived. The over the top celebration was all about that for me and it seems for Ham too. 

This, doesn't negate the fact that in a game where we looked absolutely devoid of guile and Wolves took their chances when afforded them, we deserved to lose. 

Yeh, fair enough mate. Please see my reply to Ham which explains how I misunderstood what you had said.

Anyway, a good exchange and I certainly don't want to fall out with either Ham or yourself Mark. I know you and I have a lot of common interests as I believe you know.

I have a third team which I follow, which is Weymouth Town, the Terras, now playing in the National League. That was the first team I ever followed,. It started when I was 8 or 9 years old and going to watch them with my mates was the first thing I was allowed to do on my own, without parental supervision. That's having it’s frustrations too just now. In the last 2 games they've gone 2-0 up in the first half only to be clawed back to 2-2 before HT and eventually lose! Jesus! In the words of a famous scouser, no less, “Christ, you know it ain't easy”!

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On 12/16/2020 at 9:06 PM, Tammy's right foot said:

I think Frank's style of coaching, like Zidane's, is one of being an organiser, man-manager and motivator while letting the individual talents of the players shine through and carry the team to victories. It works well when you have a team of highly talented and seasoned individuals who are used to winning and know what it takes to do so, as we did from 2006 onwards. Less useful perhaps in a freshly cobbled together young team lacking a distinct playstyle (other than an over-reliance on FBs providing width). Our team needs tactical and coaching direction and unfortunately it increasingly seems like Frank is unable to provide it. On the other hand it has to be said he is excellent at guiding and developing young players. Mount, Tammy, James, Kova and Pulisic have all noticeably improved under his tutelage. However that isn't enough to save Frank I fear. I think its only a matter of time now.

If it sadly comes to pass and the club and Frank do part ways, at least we can take comfort in the fact that there are more candidates now for the job than there were when Sarri ran away so finding a suitable replacement shouldn't be too difficult.

 

 

BOOM

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On 12/17/2020 at 2:08 AM, My Blood Is Blue said:

I've deliberately not posted, nor read to much on here since the Wolves game, I wanted some time to try and rationalise what happened and how I felt about it, I honestly still can't. What I do know, is that it was an awful performance, we showed no drive, no guts, no fight and honestly didn't look too much like we wanted to win and that hurts a lot. Wolves weren't particularly good, but they did what they do most games and that conserved energy and then flew at us for the final 20/25 mins when they realised they could get a result, we should never have allowed that to happen. If we had shown a slight bit of fight in the first half, we could have wrapped things up by half time. It was a lazy performance.

Why? That's the tricky question and it's a painful answer because I do think a lot of it was down to Frank, he sent the same team out as the weekend, when clearly half of them were shattered. I know we have injuries, but we easily could have put Azpi in at RB or LB, Rudiger in for Silva, Gilmour/Kovacic/Jorginho in for Havertz and/or Mount and Tammy in for Groud, but for some reason, Frank didn't do it and I really can't work out why.

I've backed Frank all season, I continue to do so, I still believe he can take this team where we want them to go, but if we see a similar performance vs West Ham after almost a weeks break, then I may just have a tinge of concern over where this manager and season is going. He has to make changes for West Ham, he has to find a way to either get Werner as the actual striker, or put him on the bench, not another game of him wasted on the left! Havertz has to be dropped, he needs to play from the bench for until he starts to show he has an understanding of this league and the pace it's played at. If Havertz gets a start vs West Ham, then you have to question what Frank is seeing out there.

Maybe, even a couple of days after the fact, I'm being reactive, but it was a really poor performance and it is concerning if it starts to become more than a 'blip'.

Bingo

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