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JaneB

Leicester City 2 Chelsea 0

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6 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

This is an old chestnut Mark - “Frank Lampard is so intelligent”

Is he? How do you know that and in what way is his intelligence manifested? Gary Neville comes across in his role as pundit as an intelligent and articulate bloke and, like Frank, he had a very high level career as a player. So you might have thought therefore that he would have the makings of a successful manager. But what do you know? He took a job and crashed and burned in record time. Might have been a record for one of the earliest failures. Mind you, it was a very risky adventure from the outset I'd say - to take up your first appointment with a high profile foreign side in a league where he had not played himself before and where he didn’t speak the language.

Frank, following just one season with a championship team came to the club which he knows best of all, working in a league where he'd been super successful as a player. But following a very creditable first season working with our young academy products, once he'd raised the stakes and spent lavishly on an array of well regarded foreign imports? Well that has become an entirely different scenario and he now looks in very unknown territory and seemingly has no answer to our problems.

Being a head coach/manager at a very high level is a tall order I'd say. It calls for a mix of technical skills, ( tactical nous, player deployment, playing styles in all departments of a team etc), and “soft” skills, ( man management, player empathy, motivational skills and so on). It ain't easy and it's apparent that a stellar playing career and having a reputation for being intelligent because of a high score in an IQ test from way back are not that relevant at all.

I was thinking more academically than anything, I think he has three A levels which amongst footballers are as rare as hens teeth. 

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5 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

"I wish we played like Villa" is not a sentence I'd ever thought I'd say in my life. 

They are exactly what we aren't, more than the sum of their parts. 

Still say Martinez is one of the best Keepers around too. 

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7 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

 

Frank, following just one season with a championship team came to the club which he knows best of all, working in a league where he'd been super successful as a player. But following a very creditable first season working with our young academy products, once he'd raised the stakes and spent lavishly on an array of well regarded foreign imports? Well that has become an entirely different scenario and he now looks in very unknown territory and seemingly has no answer to our problems.

Perhaps there are no easy answers, Spending lavishly has really just made things worse, I get we are mostly talking about Havertz, Werner and Ziyech ? I am not absolving Lampard but that sort of outlay is a club choice of which he will have had some input,  and bying Havertz because we could is a very Roman thing.

As someone said earlier do we build a team around Havertz, You could say that about Werner, and to a lesser degree  Ziyech but what if they are all incompatable ? and what does this do for someone like Mount who may end a part bit extra in all this ?

Early days but with the best will in the world I can't see an obvious solution on the pitch, paper yes.

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11 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I was thinking more academically than anything, I think he has three A levels which amongst footballers are as rare as hens teeth. 

Yes I agree of course and certainly, academically he has a record which suggests intelligence for sure. He's also very articulate, as is Gary Neville.

After I posted my reply to you I started musing on other examples of “surprising managerial failures”. Also from current punditry we have Alan Shearer, who has become a very good pundit on MOTD I'd say and was revered as a player by Geordies, but he did nothing in his, admittedly short tenure, as a manager. 

Roy Keane is now a pundit too. Had a hugely successful playing career but could’n manage a team at all it appeared.

And then there's our own Rudd! An outstanding playing career all over Europe and certainly very intelligent, but yet another managerial car crash.

Yes, there's quite a roll-call of dishonour with respect to ex-player, managerial failures. Maybe Frank will still come good, but past evidence runs counter to that somewhat.

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5 hours ago, NoblyBobly said:

I'm honestly not being funny but I didn't understand a bit of that. 

You’re not the only one. 

5 hours ago, Droy was my hero said:

Irrespective of ones views on Jorginho, we seem stuck with him.  The sell-on value of all players has fallen but his has fallen most of all.

Absolutely, after two seasons and a half here I don’t think he’s a target for any decent European side at all. It will be the likes of Lazio/Napoli/Roma/Seville/Valencia/Sociedad etc who may take a punt on him if he agrees to lower his wages substantially. 

No other takers out there I’m afraid. An excellent example of why we should never let managers chose the players. The managers will be here for a maximum of two seasons whereas such purchases are here for five. 

5 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't know how well they play for their national sides, I don't watch. BUT, they are deemed first choice by their coaches, which means they are good players. You don't play CB for Germany or CM for Italy or Croatia without being a good player, and better than their alternatives. And it certainly means you are better than playing for the 10th best team in the Premiership

Well, they can, and they have, and to varying degrees of success. Certainly more so than what is currently on display

It doesn’t mean that at all. National sides are littered with bang average players. Luckily for us we have quite a few observations to judge these players on where it matters - at Chelsea FC. None of them has ever produced anything more than average PL standard imo. Rudiger and Christensen did that in an ultra defensive Conte-side with 5 defenders and 3 defensive mids. As soon as they were asked to perform in a back four in a team with ambition their shortcomings were painfully obvious. 

4 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Additionally........in this recent 8 game , 5 defeats shambles. Rudiger had played 3 times (lost 1), Kepa hasn't played at all, AC played once in a draw, and Jorginho started 4 (2 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss)

So let's park to one side for a minute whether you or I think they are good enough or not, none of them are really (or much) to blame for what has been happening on the field recently. 

 

Sure. They haven’t meant much for the last 8 games I give you that. But they are part of the squad and among the top earners of the squad. Their presence is no doubt demoralising and Rudiger himself is not known to be the best team player around. Bad attitude. Both on and off the field. 

3 hours ago, chelboy said:

With the type of signings we are making and the type of football we want to play as well as the academy players we might promote  in the next few years , Allegri would be a complete disaster. We have no business looking at these type of managers. I just hope the board can see it too.

I would  like us to give a manager with PL experience a go. Poch would have been the best fit for what we are looking for. Hassenhuttl and Rodgers may not have a luxurious CV but they will be better fits than coaches like Allegri. I don’t know if the board scout managers and identify which managers may suit their needs and way of playing as well as man management and temperament. Tuchel clashed with the boards at his last 2-3 clubs. He would certainly clash with our board at sometime but I wouldn’t be surprised if we went for him even though we know what he is like. 

I agree. Personally I think Rodgers is the best shout considering where we are at the moment. Poch may also be a decent shout but only as the manager to build us up to a top four side again. Once we want to make a serious assault on the title he will need replacing. 

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6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

I was thinking more academically than anything, I think he has three A levels which amongst footballers are as rare as hens teeth. 

Pretty common amongst ordinary people though.  About half go to University now (though only 44% of men).  That implies at least 2 A-levels or equivalent.

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34 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

"I wish we played like Villa" is not a sentence I'd ever thought I'd say in my life. 

I hope we're first in line for Grealish, the guy is class and stepping up to the Prem and England level has been a walk in the park for him. McGinn is the type of centre mid we're missing.

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45 minutes ago, CarefreeMuratcan said:

"I wish we played like Villa" is not a sentence I'd ever thought I'd say in my life. 

Best game I've seen in a while, arguably all season and its 0-0.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Pretty common amongst ordinary people though.  About half go to University now (though only 44% of men).  That implies at least 2 A-levels or equivalent.

Then and now, Lampard took his A levels before the expansion of higher education and grade inflation, so what people do now is irrelevant, Not that he would have gone.

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